050 PSCo's Motion for Protective Order re Attorney Fee Discovery with Exhibits and Proposed Order1
DISTRICT COURT, BOULDER COUNTY, COLORADO
Court Address: 1777 6TH Street, Boulder
Colorado 80302
303-441-3750
_________________________________________________
Petitioner:
THE CITY OF BOULDER, a Colorado Home Rule City,
v.
Respondent:
PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF COLORADO, a
Colorado Corporation, d/b/a XCEL ENERGY; MORGAN
GUARANTY TRUST COMPANY OF NEW YORK; and
PAUL WEISSMANN, in his official capacity as Treasurer of
Boulder County.
_________________________________________________
Attorneys for Respondent, Public Service Company of
Colorado
John R. Sperber, Atty. Reg. No. 22073
Sarah M. Kellner, Atty. Reg. No. 38111
FAEGRE DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP
1144 Fifteenth Street, Suite 3400
Denver, Colorado 80202
Telephone: (303) 607-3500
Fax: (303) 607-3600
jack.sperber@faegredrinker.com
sarah.kellner@faegredrinker.com
COURT USE ONLY
__________________________
Case Number: 19 CV 30637
Division: 5
RESPONDENT’S MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER RE: ATTORNEY FEE
DISCOVERY
Respondent, Public Service Company of Colorado (“Respondent” or “PSCo”), through its
undersigned counsel, respectfully files this Motion for Protective Order Re: Attorney Fee
Discovery. As grounds, Respondent states as follows:
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CERTIFICATION REGARDING CONFERRAL
Pursuant to C.R.C.P. 121, § 1-15, Respondent’s undersigned counsel certifies that he has
conferred in good faith with Petitioner’s counsel regarding this Motion. Specifically, following the
Court’s March 24 Order referenced below, Jack Sperber spoke with Petitioner’s outside counsel,
Don Ostrander, that morning and indicated he did not believe it was necessary to respond to
Petitioner’s discovery but asked about Petitioner’s position. On March 25, Boulder Senior
Counsel, Kathy Haddock, emailed a response indicating that Petitioner opposed PSCo’s requested
“indefinite extension of time.” Mr. Sperber responded by indicating PSCo was not seeking an
extension of time; its position was that the discovery was not due on the same grounds explained
in this Motion. He further indicated that PSCo would seek a protective order if Petitioner disagreed
and asked for a response by the end of the day since the discovery, if proper, would otherwise be
due today. As of the time of this filing, Petitioner’s counsel has not responded.
BACKGROUND
1. On October 16, 2019, PSCo filed its Motion for Attorney Fees pursuant to C.R.S.
§ 38-1-122(1). Briefing by the parties was completed on January 10, 2020, and a hearing was set
for May 1, 2020.
2. Without conferring with PSCo or seeking leave from the Court to conduct formal
written discovery pursuant to C.R.C.P. 121, § 1-22(2)(b), Petitioner served written discovery on
PSCo on February 20, 2020.
3. On March 24, 2020, this Court entered an Order vacating the May 1, 2020 hearing,
deferring ruling on PSCo’s motion for attorney fees until resolution of the appeal filed by
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Petitioner, and ordering that either: (1) the hearing could be reset at a future date if the order of
dismissal is affirmed on appeal, or (2) the motion for attorney fees would become moot if the order
of dismissal is reversed.
4. For the following reasons, PSCo seeks a protective order.
GROUNDS FOR MOTION
5. A party seeking formal discovery relating to attorney fee issues is required to seek
leave from the court: “The court may permit discovery on the issue of attorney fees only upon
good cause shown when requested by any party.” C.R.C.P. 121, § 1-22(2)(b) (emphasis added).
6. Petitioner never sought leave from this Court to conduct discovery pursuant to
C.R.C.P. 121. Petitioner also failed to confer with PSCo regarding such discovery. Petitioner’s
discovery is therefore unauthorized.
7. Prior to the vacation of the hearing, PSCo was willing to voluntarily produce a
subset of the information requested by Petitioner in advance of the hearing. Similarly, Petitioner
previously provided limited—albeit incomplete—responses to PSCo’s informal and very limited
discovery requests in advance of this same hearing. Since disposition of the motion for attorney
fees must now wait for a resolution of the appeal on the order of dismissal, however, PSCo does
not want to incur any further expense related to formal or informal discovery that may never be
necessary or may change in scope over time given that the appeal will likely not be resolved for
many months or longer. While PSCo believes that the discovery is either effectively mooted by
the Court’s recent order or is otherwise now no longer necessary, Petitioner insists that PSCo
respond.
8. Even assuming that Petitioner had complied with C.R.C.P. 121, § 1-22 and that it
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was otherwise appropriate to move forward with discovery in light of the Court’s March 24th
Order, Petitioner’s discovery demands exceed the permissible scope of discovery under C.R.C.P.
26. This is because the information Petitioner seeks is neither “relevant to the claim or defense of
any party,” nor is it “proportional to the needs of case, considering the importance of the issues at
stake in the action, the amount in controversy, the parties’ relative access to relevant information,
the parties’ resources, the importance of the discovery in resolving the issues, and whether the
burden or expense of the proposed discovery outweighs its likely benefit.” C.R.C.P. 26(b)(1).
9. Petitioner’s discovery is not narrowly aimed and tailored at gathering information
and documents relevant to its defense on the reimbursement of PSCo’s attorney fees. See
Petitioner’s Written Discovery, attached as Exhibit 1. PSCo seeks recovery of attorney fees for
only a limited amount of work performed by its outside counsel, Faegre Drinker Biddle & Reath
LLP, and has already produced itemized time entries, hourly rate information, background on the
attorneys, affidavits, expert opinions, and other documents supporting its request as exhibits to its
Motion for Attorney Fees and Reply. Petitioner now seeks additional information irrelevant to
those claims for fees such as, for example, discovery regarding work for which PSCo is not
presently seeking reimbursement.1 Boulder also seeks confidential and privileged information
about PSCo’s outside counsel’s representation of other clients, such as fee agreements, invoices,
and total fees incurred in other unrelated cases “[f]or the last three calendar years.”2 This discovery
1 See Exhibit 1, Interrogatory Nos. 1-7, and 10-13; Request for Production of Documents Nos. 1-
4, 7, 9, 10, 13, and 14.
2 See Exhibit 1, Interrogatory Nos. 15 and 16; Request for Production of Documents Nos. 13 and
14.
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is not narrowly tailored or focused, not proportional to the needs of the case, and not discoverable.3
10. Per C.R.C.P. 26(c), upon motion by the party from whom discovery is sought and
for good cause shown, the court may enter an order to protect a party from annoyance,
embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden and expense, including an order that the discovery
“not be had.” See also Committee Comment to C.R.C.P. 26(d) (“In short, the concept is to allow
discovery of what a party/lawyer needs to prove its case, but not what a party/lawyer wants to
know about the subject of a case.”). As described above, good cause exists for the entry of a
protective order.
11. In sum, Petitioner has failed to seek leave from this Court to conduct and enforce
discovery against PSCo on the issue of attorney fees. For this reason alone, discovery should not
be had. But Petitioner’s written discovery is also unnecessary, irrelevant, disproportional, and
would cause undue burden or expense.
WHEREFORE, PSCo requests that the Court enter a protective order holding that PSCo
need not respond to Boulder’s written discovery requests. A proposed Order is attached for the
Court’s convenience.
Respectfully submitted this 26th day of March 2020.
FAEGRE DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP
/s/ John R. Sperber
John R. Sperber, Atty. Reg. No. 22073
Attorneys for Respondent
Public Service Company of Colorado
3 To the extent the Court denies this Motion, PSCo reserves the right to specifically object to
Petitioner’s Interrogatories and Requests for Production of Documents.
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CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned certifies that on March 26, 2020, a copy of the foregoing
RESPONDENT’S MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER RE: ATTORNEY FEE
DISCOVERY was served on the following by the methods listed below:
Attorneys for Petitioner, City of Boulder:
Office of the Boulder City Attorney
Thomas A. Carr
Kathleen E. Haddock
P.O. Box 791
Boulder, CO 80306
carrt@bouldercolorado.gov
haddockk@bouldercolorado.gov
( ) First Class Mail
( ) Hand Delivery
( ) Overnight Delivery
(X ) CCES
( ) E-Mail
Hamre, Rodriguez, Ostrander & Dingess, PC
Donald M. Ostrander
Richard F. Rodriguez
3600 S. Yosemite Street, Suite 500
Denver, CO 80237
dostrander@hrodlaw.com
rrodriguez@hrodlaw.com
( ) First Class Mail
( ) Hand Delivery
( ) Personal Service
( ) Overnight Delivery
(X ) CCES
( ) E-Mail
/s/ Lynne McWhirt
Legal Administrative Assistant
EXHIBIT 1
DISTRICT COURT, BOULDER COUNTY, COLORADO
Boulder County Justice Center
1777 6th Street
Boulder, Colorado 80302
Petitioner:
THE CITY OF BOULDER, a Colorado Home Rule City,
v.
Respondents:
PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF COLORADO, a Colorado
Corporation, d/b/a XCEL ENERGY, MORGAN GUARANTY
TRUST COMPANY OF NEW YORK; and PAUL WEISSMANN, in
his official capacity as Treasurer of Boulder County.
Attorneys for Petitioner, City of Boulder:
Attorney Name:
Donald M. Ostrander, No. 12458
Richard F. Rodriguez, No. 25105
Hamre, Rodriguez, Ostrander & Dingess, PC
Address:
3600 S. Yosemite Street, Suite 500
Denver, Colorado 80237
Phone Number: 303.779.0200
Email: dostrander@hrodlaw.com
rrodriguez@hrodlaw.com
Attorney Name:
Office of the Boulder City Attorney
Thomas A. Carr, No. 42170, City Attorney
Kathleen E. Haddock, No 16011, Senior Counsel
Address:
P.O. Box 791
Boulder, CO 80306
Phone Number: 303.441.3020
Email: carrt@bouldercolorado.gov
haddockk@bouldercolorado.gov
COURT USE ONLY
___________________
Case No: 2019CV30637
Division: 5
PETITIONER CITY OF BOULDER INTERROGATORIES AND REQUESTS FOR
PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS TO RESPONDENT XCEL REGARDING
ATTORNEYS FEES
SERVED ONLY: February 20, 2020 3:03 PM
FILING ID: E2D134195D14E
CASE NUMBER: 2019CV30637
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Petitioner City of Boulder requests that Respondent, Public Service Company of
Colorado d/b/a Xcel Energy (“Xcel”), answer, under oath, the following In terrogatories and
produce the documents described below for inspection at the offices of the Boulder City
Attorney, 1777 Broadway, Boulder, Colorado 80302 within 35 days.
DEFINITION AND INSTRUCTIONS
1. Identify, when used in reference to a natural person, requires the following
information: (a) his or her full name and present or last known address and telephone number;
(b) the person’s present title and employer or other business affiliation and the address and
telephone number thereof; (c) the person’s title and employer or other business affiliation at the
time the action at which each Interrogatory is directed, and address and telephone number
thereof; and (d) whether or not the person presently is living.
2. Identify, when used in reference to a document, requires the following
information: (a) subject of the document, (b) the title of the document, (c) the type of the
document (letter, e-mail, memorandum, telegram, tape), (d) the date of the document, or, if the
specific date thereof is unknown, the month and year, or best approximation of such date, (e) the
number of pages of such document, (f) the identity of the person or persons to whom the
document is directed or who received or reviewed the document or copies of the document or
any portion thereof, and (g) the present or last known location and custodian of the document
and the address and telephone number of such custodian.
3. Document, means any item or tangible thing within the scope of C.R.C.P. 34,
including, but not limited to, any medium on which intelligence or information can be recorded
or retrieved, book, pamphlet, letter, memorandum, (including memorandum or report of a
meeting or conversation), e-mail, text message, tweet, facsimile, invoice, bill, order form,
receipt, financial statement, statement, accounting entry, diary, calendar, telex, telegram, cable,
report, record, contract, agreement, study, blueprint, map, plan, handwritten note, draft, working
paper, chart, paper, rent, laboratory record, drawing, sketch, grant, index, list, tape, photograph,
microfilm, data sheet, data processing card, or any other written, recorded, transcribed, punched,
taped, filmed, or graphic matter, however produced or reproduced. Additionally, the terms
Document or Documents include, without limitation, all enclosures, attachments, and related
materials attached to or referenced in any document defined above.
4. Describe means (1) to describe all facts, analysis, opinions, conclusions,
inferences, arguments or conjectures supporting the matter, statements or contentions in
question; and (2) to identify each person who is knowledgeable about the matter, statement or
contention in question.
5. Project means the acquisition of property from Xcel for the City of Boulder’s
municipalization, as more particularly described in the Amended Petition in Condemnation filed
by the City in the Matter defined below.
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6. You, Your, or Yourself refers to Respondent Xcel, along with its managers,
officers, elected officials, staff, employees, agents, attorneys, accountants, consultants, brokers,
representatives, partners, appraisers, surveyors, engineers, and all other persons or entities
purporting to, or authorized to act on behalf of Xcel.
7. Condemnation Dismissal Matter means any and all activity related to Xcel’s
Motion to Dismiss the City’s First Amended Petition in Condemnation in Boulder County
District Court Case Number 2019-CV-030637 (the “Case”). The Matter includes all activity
leading up to the filing of the Motion to Dismiss, including any briefing on the Motion to
Dismiss and any activity related to Xcel’s Motion for an Award of Attorney Fees, including any
briefing on the Motion for Award of Attorney Fees.
8. Condemnation Matter means any and all activity performed on behalf of Xcel
directly related to the Case.
9. Other Matters means any and all activity related to Boulder’s municipalization
project for which You seek reimbursement of your attorney fees and costs in the Case but which
does not qualify as Condemnation Dismissal Matter or Condemnation Matter.
10. Matters means, collectively, the Condemnation Dismissal Matter, Condemnation
Matter, and Other Matters and, singularly, any one of these three defined matters.
11. Xcel Attorney’s Office means any and all attorneys, paralegals, and other legal
staff employed by Xcel the City who performed any work on the Matter, including, but not
limited to, Christopher Irby and Lance Reams.
12. Faegre Professionals means any and all Faegre & Benson, Faegre Baker Daniels
and Faegre Drinker Biddle & Reath, LLP attorneys, paralegals, and other legal staff who
performed any work on behalf of Xcel on the Matters.
13. DGS Professionals means any and all Davis, Graham and Stubbs, LLP attorneys,
paralegals, and other legal staff who performed any work on behalf of Xcel on the Matters.
14. Other Legal Professionals means any and all attorneys, paralegals, or other legal
staff—other than the Xcel Attorney’s Office, Faegre Professionals, and DGS Professionals—
who performed any work on behalf of Xcel on the Matters.
15. Communication means any and all communications, including, but not limited
to, letters, facsimiles, e-mails, telephone logs, meeting transcripts, and voice mails.
16. Considered means viewed by the eyes, whether the document was simply
reviewed and used, in whole or in part, or reviewed and rejected, in whole or in part, and
regardless of how much time was spent reviewing the document.
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17. Relate to, related to, or relating to means to consist of, refer to, reflect on, arise
out of, or be in any way or manner legally, factually or logically connected with the matter
discussed.
18. In answering any Interrogatory that calls for identification of persons or
documents, if you do not know or cannot obtain information sufficient to provide a full
identification of a particular person or document, but you are able to provide a partial
identification, then you should provide such partial identification and state that the identification
is in fact partial.
SUPPLEMENTATION OF RESPONSE
These Interrogatories and Requests for Production of Documents are deemed to be
continuing to the fullest extent permitted by C.R.C.P. 26(e).
OBJECTIONS
If you object to any portion of these Interrogatories or Requests for Production of
Documents on the ground that they request information that is privileged, set forth the privilege
claimed, the facts upon which you relied to support the claim of privilege, and identify each
communication or document that is claimed to be privileged by way of an attorney-client
privilege log or inventory.
INTERROGATORIES
1. For each specific Matter, identify all Faegre Professionals that worked on the
Condemnation Dismissal Matter, Condemnation Matter, and Other Matters.
2. For each specific Matter, identify all DGS Professionals, if any, that worked on
the Condemnation Dismissal Matter, the Condemnation Matter, and Other Matters.
3. For each specific Matter, identify all Other Legal Professionals, if any, that
worked on the Condemnation Dismissal Matter, the Condemnation Matter, and Other Matters.
4. For each specific Matter, identify anyone from the Xcel Attorney’s Office that
worked on the Condemnation Dismissal Matter, the Condemnation Matter, and Other Matters.
5. Describe the role the Xcel Attorney’s office played in each Matter, including but
not limited to its work relating to drafting, reviewing, revising and filing pleadings, work with
appraisers or other consultants and review of expert reports, review of City ordinances and
memoranda and supporting documents relating thereto, drafting of or other work related to
negotiation letters and other communications, or any other activity related to each specific
Matter.
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6. Describe by separate Matter the total hours spent by the Xcel Attorney’s Office
relating to each separate Matter, from September 1, 2018 to present.
7. Describe by separate Matter the total hours worked by Faegre Professionals on
each separate Matter, from September 1, 2018 to present.
8. Describe by separate Matter the standard hourly rates for all Faegre Professionals
working on each separate Matter.
9. Describe by separate Matter any discount to standard hourly rates charged by
Faegre Professionals to Xcel.
10. Describe by separate Matter the total hours worked by DGS Professionals on each
separate Matter, from September 1, 2018 to present.
11. Describe by separate Matter the standard hourly rates for all DGS Professionals
working on each separate Matter.
12. Describe by separate Matter the total hours worked by DGS Professionals on each
separate Matter, from September 1, 2018 to present.
13. Describe by separate Matter the standard hourly rates for all Other Legal
Professionals working on each separate Matter.
14. In your brief, you claim the Condemnation Matter is and was complex because of,
among other things, the “involvement of third-parties." Please identify each specific third-party
involved and describe with particularity the individual’s precise involvement in the
Condemnation Matter.
15. In your brief, you claim “Faegre BD’s standard hourly rates are routinely paid by
clients for eminent domain work...” For the last three calendar years, identify the following:
a. Each specific eminent domain matter where clients paid FB its standard
hourly rates.
b. Each specific timekeeper who billed time on each specific eminent domain
matter.
c. For each specific timekeeper who billed time on a specific eminent
domain matter, the percentage of time spent by that timekeeper on each
particular matter (either by percentage of total hours or by dollar figures).
d. For each specific eminent domain matter, identify the total hours and total
amount of fees billed to the client.
e. The complete fee or engagement agreement related to your services.
16. To the extent any of the eminent domain matters You identified in above
interrogatory number 16 involved or resulted in litigation, identify the following:
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a. Each specific case by name of the parties, court, and case number.
b. Each specific timekeeper who billed time on each specific eminent domain
matter.
c. Each specific timekeeper’s percentage of time spent on each specific
eminent domain matter (either by percentage of total hours or dollar
figures).
d. For each specific eminent domain matter, identify the total amount of fees
billed to the client.
e. The complete fee or engagement agreement related to your services.
REQUESTS FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS
1. Produce by separate Matter all time records for the Xcel Attorney’s Office
relating to each separate Matter.
2. Produce all invoices received by You from any Faegre Professionals relating to
work performed on the Matters, from September 1, 2018 to present.
3. Produce all invoices received by You from any DGS Professionals relating to
work performed on the Matters from September 1, 2018 to present.
4. Produce all invoices received by You from any Other Legal Professionals relating
to work performed on the Matters from September 1, 2018 to present.
5. Produce a complete signed copy of the fee or engagement agreement(s) between
You and Faegre Professionals related to each the Condemnation Matter, including without
limitation, evidence of 15% rate reduction for You.
6. Produce a complete signed copy of the fee or engagement agreement(s) with You
for any Matters, including, without limitation, the attachment referenced in the April 18, 2011
Xcel retention letter and the Outside Counsel Guidelines referenced as part of the retention letter.
7. Produce a complete copy of the actual invoices sent by Faegre Professionals to
You regarding any of the Matters.
8. Produce a copy of any other documents that support the fees and costs claimed in
the spreadsheet attached to Your Motion for Attorney Fees and the additional $33,938.80 in fees
and $5,965.40 in costs to prepare Your Reply in Support of Motion for Attorney Fees and the
$676,689.61 that You claim as “fees incurred from January through September, 2019.”
9. Produce a copy of pre-bills of Faegre Professionals that show any billing
judgment exercised to write-off all or portions of time entries including, without limitation, any
documentation to support Your claim for Attorney Fees to be “a small fraction of its total
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attorney’s fees and costs incurred as a result of the City’s” Petition and the “billing judgement,
which resulted in roughly 10 percent of [Faegre Professionals’] work not being charged” to You.
10. Produce all documents that evidence proof of payment by You of any invoices
from Faegre Professionals related to any of the Matters.
11. Produce any document Considered by Jack Sperber in preparation of his affidavit
in support of Xcel’s Motion for Award of Attorney Fees in the Condemnation Matter.
12. Produce any document Considered by Jack Sperber in preparation of his
supplemental affidavit in support of Xcel’s Motion for Award of Attorney Fees in the
Condemnation Matter.
13. Produce any document that supports or is otherwise related to your answer to
Interrogatory Number 15.
14. Produce any document that supports or is otherwise related to your answer to
Interrogatory Number 16.
Respectfully submitted this 20th day of February, 2020.
BOULDER CITY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
Thomas A. Carr, No. 42170, City Attorney
Kathleen E. Haddock, No.16011, Senior Counsel
HAMRE, RODRIGUEZ, OSTRANDER & DINGESS, P.C.
/S/ RICHARD F. RODRIGUEZ’S DULY SIGNED PHYSICAL COPY OF THIS
DOCUMENT IS ON FILE AT THE OFFICE OF HAMRE, RODRIGUEZ,
OSTRANDER & DINGESS, P.C. PURSUANT TO CRCP RULE 121,
SECTION 1-26(9)
By:
Donald M. Ostrander, No. 12458
Richard F. Rodriguez, No. 25105
ATTORNEYS FOR PETITIONER
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CERTIFICATE OF DELIVERY
I hereby certify that on the 20th day of February, 2020, a true and correct copy of the
foregoing PETITIONER CITY OF BOULDER INTERROGATORIES AND REQUESTS
FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS TO RESPONDENT XCEL REGARDING
ATTORNEYS FEES was sent via Colorado Courts E-Filing or sent via e-mail or placed in the
United States mail, first class, postage prepaid, and properly addressed to the following:
John R. Sperber
Sarah M. Kellner
Brandee L. Caswell
Matthew D. Clark
Katharine M. Gray
Sean J. Metherell
Faegre Drinker Biddle & Reath, LLP
1144 Fifteenth Street, Suite 3400
Denver, Colorado 80202
jack.sperber@faegredrinker.com
sarah.kellner@faegredrinker.com
brandee.caswell@faegredrinker.com
matthew.clark@faegredrinker.com
katie.gray@faegredrinker.com
sean.metherell@faegredrinker.com
Attorneys for Public Service Company of Colorado
Olivia D. Lucas
Boulder County Attorney’s Office
P.O. Box 471
Boulder, CO 80306
olucas@bouldercounty.org
Respondent Paul Weissmann, in His Official Capacity As Treasurer Of Boulder
County
HAMRE, RODRIGUEZ, OSTRANDER & DINGESS, P.C.
/s/ Lori A. Argo
By:
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DISTRICT COURT, BOULDER COUNTY, COLORADO
Court Address: 1777 6TH Street, Boulder
Colorado 80302
303-441-3750
_________________________________________________
Petitioner:
THE CITY OF BOULDER, a Colorado Home Rule City,
v.
Respondent:
PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF COLORADO, a
Colorado Corporation, d/b/a XCEL ENERGY; MORGAN
GUARANTY TRUST COMPANY OF NEW YORK; and
PAUL WEISSMANN, in his official capacity as Treasurer of
Boulder County.
COURT USE ONLY
__________________________
Case Number: 19 CV 30637
Division: 5
[PROPOSED] ORDER GRANTING RESPONDENT’S MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE
ORDER RE: ATTORNEY FEE DISCOVERY
This Court, upon Respondent’s Motion for Protective Order Re: Attorney Fee Discovery,
having reviewed any response and reply, and being fully advised in the premises, hereby GRANTS
the Motion.
The Court ORDERS that Petitioner’s written discovery, served on February 20, 2020, shall
not be allowed.
Dated this _____ day of _____________ 2020
BY THE COURT:
DISTRICT COURT JUDGE