HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 2/11/2000DO NOT REMOVE -
PRAB File Matenal
~ City of Boulder
~ Parks and Recreation Advisory Board
Minutes
February 11,2000
City Council Chambers
1777 Broadway
6:00 p.m.
The follow:ng are the minutes of the February Il, 2000 Ciry of Boulder Parks and Recreation
Advisory Board meetmg. A permanent set of these minutes and a tape recording (maintained for
a penod of 6 years) are reta~ned an Central Records (telephone ⢠441-3043)
Board Present: hm Peterson, Chazr; Jen Overbeck, Vice-Chair, Will Meyer, Juha Lavely,
Gwen Dooley, Chazles Manlove
Board Absent: Dave Wmmg
Staff Present: Chris Dropmski, Ann Wichmann, Sazah DeSouza, Georgia Jackson, Lmda
Kotowsk~, Steve Taylor, Julya Bndgewater, Matt Claussen
r~"'~
~ I. Discussion of the Conservation Impact, Inc. report to the City Manager on City of
Boulder Management Audit of Parks and Recreation/Mountain Parks Division and
Open Space/Real Estate Department
Ron Secnst gave an overview of events leadmg up to the Management Aud~t and what to
expect from this pomt forwazd. He will develop a report and recommendation of
direction to present to City Council Secnst will ask Council for feedback and ophons to
take to the pubhc for comment
Shelli Bischoff gave a short explanauon of the process of the Management Audit and
asked the Board for any quest~ons they might have
Dooley asked why Conservat~on Impact mterviewed the County Plannmg Director but did
not mternew Ron Stewart, the Director of County Pazks and Open Space Baschoff
responded that the consultants went wath the Core Team's recommendation on how far to
expand the ~ntervtew process. The County Planntng D~rector was anterviewed because
they wanted a broader context of Boulder, Boulder Open Space, and Boulder Parks and
Recreation, wtth~n a county-wtde perspective It was thought that the County Planner
could best represent all of those other paeces Dooley stated that she disagreed smce
Stewart is also the County Commissioner and has a lot of plamm~g expertise over the
years
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~
Meyer stated that while some of the audit findmgs appeaz to be systemic, he doesdt thmk
~ that they are umque to this organizat~on and that many of the problems aze common to
~ both the Open Space Department and the Mountazn Parks Division He asked how, undei
the proposed management reorgamzahon, these key issues would be better addressed
Bischoff responded that the aud~t findings between the two organezat~ons were done
separate from any consaderataon of what the reorgarazataon or any future outcome would
be like. She stated that the reorgarazateon was not recommended to specifically address
those assues and added that structure does not automatically address those kands of
assues. In the recommended structure, some p~eces such as decisaon-making, planning,
and communication are considered tn what an effecttve organization would be lake For
example, an effective organizateon would have less management layers for more effecteve
decasaon-makang commun~cat~on.
Lavely asked if the $900k savmgs is sustaznable without addihonal staffing Btschoff
responded that [he repor[ and recommendatton are at a spec~fzc po~nt in time As any
organazation grows and responds to those kinds of cretena, there w~ll be changes that are
unforeseen and unable to predect at thas potnt tn ttme Two years or five years down the
road even wath addtitaonal acquasahons and growth, the more efficaent and effect~ve the
organization ~s, it may be poss~ble to sustaen the savangs
Lavely asked if the consultants have seen this type of reorgan~zahon before and if so, was
it successful~ Bischoff responded that they had an opponuniry to work on a complex
~â reorganezatton that took extsttng organizations, combined them, and formed a whole new
r~,,,,, organezanon that zt is worktng quate well. Bischoff added that the transition plan
presented ~n the audit is based on some of those exper~ences.
Peterson asked what specific changes need to be made to the city charter to make the
merger work. Bischoff responded that the report recommends a new deparhnent name
and increasing the number of inembers on the advisory board Secrist added that he
be[~eves any name change that does not have "Open Space" in it would require a charter
change. Secondly, the report states that the new board overseeang th~s department would
be better served with seven members rather than five members Secrast bel~eves that this
would also requare a charter change. Thirdly, movang Real Estate from under Open
Space could requare a charter change as well.
Peterson asked if all of the functions that are gomg on m the Mountam Pazks Division
could be mcorporated m the new open space department without any changes to the
charter Bischoff responded [hat she be[ieves they can.
Manlove stated that he could not find any md~cat~on m the report addressmg the change
m the number of board members from five to seven and asked what the reasomng was on
that recommendation Bischoff responded that one of the key pieces of the
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~,~. PRAB Meeung 2/11/00 - Page 2
recommendation for the new orgamzatton as that it be a new organtzatton and a fresh
"~ start She added that changing the number of board members ~s symbolic, if anythang
iy..
else
Overbeck stated that cit~zens and staff who are concerned with issues related to the
idenhty of the department might expenence greater feaz and resistance to the process
because of language m the report such as "fresh starP' She asked for comment on what is
seen as the importance of "equitable consohdauon" and why that is better than
mcorporatmg one entity mto another existmg entity Bischoff responded that the
consultants purpose[y tried not to use the word merger and tnstead used the word
consolidateon. They felt it amportant that one department not subsume another as they
recogmzed values, assets, resources, skills, expertase and strengths of both organ~zanons
equally Size and amounts of resources beang trrelevant, both organt2ataons brtng
somethang very amportant to the table. That zs why the consultants focused strongly on a
new organtzatton wtth a new name - as that recognizes the value both bnng
Overbeck asked what elements of loss (assets, skills, or symbohsm) aze associated wrth
any new organizahon Bischoff responded that whenever you have change you have [oss
and hopefully out of change comes renewal, that those pieces aren't lost. Another thtng
that as amportant to the new organizataon is that when you talk about functions, the value
of the land or the importarcce of the public in using, particapatang and appreciat~ng the
Land; those thzngs are the h~story and values and come along to the new organtzataon.
~ Baschoff added that the organazanonal deszgn that is recommended respects the thmgs
that people are afraad of be~ng lost
Meyer asked how they came to the conclusion to separate Real Estate from Open Space
and place rt under the Ciry Manager' Office. Baschoff responded that et was a del~berate
recommendation because from the open space acquisitions side they recognized the
importance and urgency of that funetaon en the Caty. As a result at has a key funetion and
they wanted it to have its own focus The flap sade of that is the same ratzonale; looking
at and focusing on the core functions of the new organization One of the major
functaons as visitor service which is safety, education, outreach and publ~c relataons.
Those are the things that the publ~c cares about. whether the land ts used or not, whether
at's betng protected or not, how the land is used and managed, what happens on the land
and preservatton for future generateons. The purpose of separat~ng out rea[ estate ~s for
the organization to functton on tts core functtons
Peterson asked if the strategies and decision-makmg that aze part of the process for
acquinng land would be m the AcquisiUon secrion rather than the new department.
Baschoff responded that those kinds of strategaes would remain wath the new department
and that the real estate arm funckons as a service to that department. As tn any chent-
server relationshap they well want to work very closely together anticipatang the needs of
the eustomer
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Dooley stated that she spent four yeazs on City Council, five years on the Open Space
!^ Boazd of Trustees, another three yeazs on the Open Space Board (with a total of four
~ yeazs as Chair) and has worked closely with Jim Cram on acqmsihons and plannmg. She
beheves that anyone who recommends sepazahng acqmsihons from the Open Space
program doesn't understand how the Open Space program funct~ons or how acquisirions
aze made, because they aze so mcredibly mtegral to the whole Open Space program, its
vision and the efforts of those people who work so closely together. She beheves ~f you
sepazate that, you desuoy the program, especially when 60 percent of the money is gomg
for acquisihons
Manlove expressed his concern over the sepazahon of the real estate funcUOn from the
new department as there aze a lot of conservation easements on lands that he beheves
requue ongomg 3-way commumcarion between staff, property owners and the Real
Estate D~vision; wh~ch negot~ated the conservation easements and understands all the
legal ramificat~ons. Baschoff stated that conservataon easements, once the real estate deal
es done, have in perpetmty some responsibilettes for management, for protection of
whatever those easements are, and that rypecally wouldn't be a real estate funct~on, it
would be a stewardshap function
Manlove stated that spreadmg out management oversigh[ responsibilihes between two
different offices might make it difficult to make quick decis~ons wrth regazd to
reallocahon of resources, when an opportumty suddenly presents rtself. Secrist
I,,,,,,, responded that the new board would continue to have direct overszght over acquasitaons
tâ~,,,, and would hear d~rectly from two dafferent elements, the land managers and the real
estate staff He believes that the management of the acquisition dollars and the
management of the land would be kept very closely together and then reallocated out to
the devision
Overbeck asked if m the process of the Management Audit, the consultants had exammed
the relat~onship between Mountam Pazks and Rea1 Estate. She spoke about the
relanonstup between Mountazn Pazks and Real Estate, where Real Estate has done some
tncky acquisrtions for Mouatam Pazks, as well as conservahon easements that aze
ongoing. She also stated that Real Estate already funct~ons separately from Mountazn
Parks, as all of the decis~ons about property acquisrtions aze made by Mountam Pazks and
the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board oversees those decisions. Real Estate then
accomplishes the acquisition/land purchase for Mountazn Parks Overbeck asked if there
are any cnUcal differences between Open Space and Mountam Parks with regazd to the
proposed separaUOn of Real Estate Wachmann responded that acqu:sitzons would
contznue to function similarly to the way they are current[y being done in Mountaan
Parks It es Mountaan Parks that sets the praonhes and goals of the program and
working in concen w~th Real Estate, those propertees were acquired. Bzschoff added that
the present relahonship beriveen Mounta~n Parks and Real Estate is exactly the kind of
relataonshzp that the consultants eonsidered
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~ PRAB Meetmg 2/11/00 - Page 4
Dooley sazd she thought part of the proposed soluhon of puttmg Real Estate m the City
'""~ Manager's Office was to thwart any norions or complaznts that Real Estate, bemg m with
~ Open Space, was not perform~ng rts services adequately for other departments. Dooley
said she either saw or heazd reference to that somewhere. B~schoff responded that was
not a consideration
Dooley asked Secnst how he would funcrion with regard to the proposed new board.
Secnst responded that according to the report, the new board would be ~n l~eu of what ts
today known as the Open Space Board of Trustees It would be a seven member trustee
board and have all the same responsabal~taes as laad out in the charter today Dooley
mqwred about how the boazd would funcrion with regard to acquisitions Secrist
responded the acquisition program would contanue~ust as u does today and that he
would not be dzrectly anvolved ~n that. The Director of Real Estate would report to the
new board and the new board would pass along proposals to Counc~l for ~ts u[kmate
constderataon It would only be at this poant that Secnst would get tnvolved.
Meyer stated that Secrist has made sigmficant organizaUOnal changes smce assummg the
role of City Manager Meyer asked Secnst if the proposed orgaruzational format of the
new Natural Lands Department is consistent with how Secnst views the optimal
managemen[ of city departments; and the city as an orgamzarion. Secrist responded that
zt ts premature for h~m to say, haveng~ust recently receaved the audit. He'll heed some
more tame to listen and gain arcput as there are a lot of right ways to do it and thas well
~ may be one
'W..
Overbeck sazd that there might be a disconnect between the way people are heanng
"acqmsihons" and what's really bemg proposed m th~s plan. It seems to her that
acquisrtions is a cntical function of the Open Space Department m terms of strategic
plamm~g, idenhfymg propert~es that need to be purchased, makmg it a prionty to go after
those propemes and that those sorts of thmgs aze fundamentally part of Open Space. It
does sound hke it would be a huge mistake to remove that from Open Space and relegate
a new department simply to the function of land managers, without any kmd of strategic
plannmg funcUOn. But what she is hearing from fellow boazd members, as well as from
members of the public, is an impression that is exactly what is proposed. She
recommends that as this process contmues, that pomt be reuerated over and over.
Overbeck said what she is heanng is that the nuts and bolts of actually negot~atmg land
purchases, on the duection of the Natural Lands Department, would be handled by Real
Estate, which would be a funcrion m the City Manager's Office She tlunks that is very
different than trymg to imply that any of the strategic long range vis~on kmds of thmgs
would be sepazated.
Meyer stated that much of the focus has been on reorganization. Meyer sazd he thmks
that we have not spoken to reasons beyond the potent~al monetary savmgs that might be
aclueved through this reorgamzation, to look at the bigger issue of the importance of the
natural resource. He thmks that wh~le Open Space has taken the lead on this issue m
~ PRAB Meenng 2/11/00 - Page 5
many mstances, the PRAB is very proud of the efforts of the Mountazn Parks
~""" admimstraUOn m mazntazmng that resource Meyer beheves the PRAB's concem is not
"r' ~ust m terms of management efficiencies, but is also mterested m how to best protect the
Mountam Pazks resource Meyer thmks what everyone is awaze of and conhnues to be
concemed about is that resource has tradIIionally been funded through General Fund
dollazs received by the City. As those revenue sources aze begmnmg to flatten out, Meyer
tlunks there is a legrtimate concern that this resource not m any way be shortchanged; and
that we wnhnue to provide, m perpetuity, adequate fundmg to be able to mazntazn that.
While this matter has been addressed by a number of people, Meyer thmks there aze
different views of this parUculaz issue. Meyer beheves that allowmg current Open Space
resources to help to support that has some broad commumty benefit and that is one of the
reasons we're here now. That is, how do we best protect that natural resource? Meyer
said he wanted to make that pomt smce most of the conversation has been about
orgamzahon and he knows that's not the only mterest or concern members of the PRAB
have
Peterson noted that all but 2 members of staff from both departments had been
confident~ally mterv~ewed by the consultants. He asked if there was anytlung that could
be shazed (wlule hononng their confidentiality) with regazd to the staff s view of the
merger or any of the~r concerns. Bischoff responded that there was one c[ear message
and that was to "get it done" Not to let the process go on and on - but to make a
decuaon one way or another She noted that staff es ~ncredibly commrtted and dedicated
and saed that the passion, integnry and skall wath which all staff people do thear~ob as
~' truly ~mpress~ve 77tey want to get on with the~r~ob af protecting the resource and to be
~ able to serve the cuuens of Boulder
As there were no more queshons from the Board, Peterson asked Board members to
express theu thoughts on the report as a whole, and offer recommendations to pass on to
the Crty Manager
Overbeck stated that she was very impressed wrth the audit and recommendat~ons that
came out of it. She understands that there aze several thmgs m the report that aze likely to
engender a great deal of feaz and resistance from a lot of people m the commumty, as well
from staff m both departrnents. She offered a few observahons To her, it comes through
loud and clear m the audit that both Mountazn Pazks and Open Space are made up of a
whole staff of people who aze tremendously skilled, expenenced, dedicated and
passionate. With regazd to the idea of not absorbmg one department mto another,
Overbeck thmks it's easy for people to feel hke the departments aze gettmg lost and gomg
away. With a leadership change, she feels that it gives everyone a focus for thmgs
changmg and gomg away And yet, although it is a leaderslup change mvolvmg two very
talented and important mdividuals, rt seems to her that dimmishes the value of the enrire
staff that w~ll still be there to come together to create a new organization Overbeck also
thmks that if a new orgamzation is created m tlus eqmtable manner, where mstead of
trymg to figure out how to fit one mto the other, what is bemg accomplished is trymg to
~,.., establish a new entity That still involves having two different groups of people come
~ PRAB Meenng 2/11/00 - Page 6
together, each with a part~culaz history, idenuty and set of values She doesn't thmk that
A^` either of those groups of people is wilhng to rehnquish all of the value that they can bnng
~' to a new organizatron She thmks that the feazs she heard from Open Space, i.e that if a
new departrnent is created then we lose Open Space, iYs dangerous to Open Space and
that Open Space would be demohshed and d~smantled; those feazs really underestimate
the contnbuhons and value of the Open Space staff who will shll be there to go mto a
new orgamzahon to carry on everytlung that Open Space is about. She beheves the same
is true for Mountam Pazks as well. Overbeck thmks that the beauty oF a new orgamzahon
is that it can be greater than both of the organizarions that may be left belund because it
can mcorporate the thmgs that aze valuable and most cntical m both organizahons, as
opposed to only m one. She knows that [his is a very scary thmg for people to
comprehend and deal with, but believes that if we have fai[h m the enrire department,
which accomplishes amazmg thmgs and is far more than ~ust the two mdividuals who
supervise those departments, that should take a lot of the fear out of it. She also thmks
that as the ~ssue of consol~dahon is considered, it is not what, but how, how it is gomg to
get done Feaz doesdt have to be there as strongly - feaz would be if what they d~d was
going away But Overbeck thmks that everyone is flexible enough to adapt to a new how
- how to get the ~ob done. This is mevitably a scary process but she hopes that everybody
will try to keep m mmd that there are a lot of people out there who aze gomg to keep us
from losmg the thmgs we might be afraid of losmg
Lavely agreed that rt was a very good report and that sometimes it takes an ob~ectrve view
to look at what the best solution is An ob~ecrive view also gets away from the more
~ emohonal decisions that go mto it Lavely shazed that she has been mvolved m a merger
and was also a management consultant for six yeazs. She stated that often mergers don't
work. She feels both departments are so good that it would be a hornble shame to see
erther not make it. She feels that a conung together on equal terms is really important for
a merger and expressed support for that Lavely also wanted to emphasize that any
monetary savmgs should remam m the program and not be retumed to the General Fund.
Dooley expressed disappomtment m the study for a vanety of reasons She had thought
there would be more analysis of work loads because she knows that some people are
overloaded, yet the report recommended three new real estate positions wluch havedt
even been asked for. She's disappomted that there isn't an m-depth analysis of the City
Manager's ophons presented last spnng and stated there were simply assertions made m
the audit with no backup All of the ophons but IA were d~srrussed but were not
analyzed. For example, on page 14, a simple merger of Mountazn Pazks and Open Space
is dismissed as unfair, not eqmtable or logical, w~thout any of these pomts bemg backed
up m any way Dooley stated that neither Mountam Parks nor Open Space is frozen m
time and wlule both programs aze evolvmg, formmg new pohcies and systems to meet
present and future needs, Dooley feels that none of this was addressed m the report It
seems to her that combmmg both departments mto one department called Open Space
and Mounta~n Pazks is equitable and respects the history of both departments and each
department mdividually She feels that a new Natural Lands Department does not respect
~,,.~ the history of either one and is so genenc that ~t doesn't even apply to Boulder. Phone
~.. PRAB Meehng 2/l 1/00 - Page 7
calls come from around the world to mquire specifically about what ~s bemg done m
*""` Open Space or Mountazn Pazks, not a Natural Lands Department Agricultural uses and
~ leases on Open Space lands would mdicate that the name Natural Lands Department
would be mappropnate. Dooley stated that there seemed to be an unfanuhazrty with the
processes m Boulder, particularly w~th crtizen mvolvement. She doesn't beheve that the
new boazd would bnng to rt what the present Open Space Board has She feels that a five
member board is the ophmum size as iYs easy to get a quorum together and much easier
to get ttungs done than, for example, the nme member Crty Council Dooley stated that
there is no way that this could be done m four months - nothmg m Boulder is done m foUr
months, especially with regazd to crtizen participahon. She would hke to see one
department formed and named the Department of Open Space and Mountam Pazks, as
that respects everybody that has worked so hazd m both departments.
Manlove sazd that the report does a good ~ob of pomhng out existmg weaknesses or
faults, and those equally shared He feels that the word merger should not be used as th~s
is not a merger - for example this is not the City of Boulder mergmg wIIh the City of
Valmont It is two divisions of the City of Boulder and is a reorgan~zation, no[ a merger.
He feels that merger is a word that creates un~ushfied feaz. His counsel would be to avoid
charter changes as it may be hazd to confine the discussion to ~ust the mmimum number
of changes that aze necessary. He feels that it may open up discussion for a lot of other
potenual changes for issues that people have. The public is passionate about th~s issue
and that may comphcate the whole process. Manlove beheves that regazdless of what the
new department is called, everythmg east of the blue lme will forever be called Open
~' Space and all lands west of the blue lme (regazdless of who owns them today) will be
`~ called Mountam Parks, m par[ because of Mountam Pazks' one hundred yeaz lustory He
feels that rt would only add confusion to call the department somethmg different from
what the lands will forever be known as Another concern he has is with the proposed
staffing levels, cuts and rearrangements. It seems unwise to him to make reduchons
when two yeazs later addrtional staff nught be needed. He would hke some pro~echon on
what future staffing needs might be m two years, five yeazs and ten yeazs, especially m
hght of the fact that land is still bemg acquired Manlove is also concemed over havmg
Real Estate m the City Manager's Office, more from an organiza[ional perspective than
from inefficiencies, although it seems to tum to be less efficient from a management
perspecUve, havmg dual management of somethmg rather than a simpler organizadon.
He feels there really needs to be a strong commitment to contmue the General Fundmg
that is currently allocated to Mountain Parks for the foreseeable future. Manlove shares
Meyer's concern m the very long term as the city's finances may get m a less comfortable
position than they aze now; that we would be afforded with some sort of consolidation,
the protechon of the dedicated fund to be used to protect all of these natural resources
Meyer stated that pubhc comment on tlus issue will be heard at the February 28 PRAB
meehng and asked that Secnst delay lus report until afterwazd. Secnst responded that he
ts wtlling to delay hes report un[il after the public heanng and feedback.
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'~ PRAB Meetmg 2/11/00 - Page 8
Peterson stated that some of the sVengths of the report were that it was an mdependent
~"^~ assessment and the audrtors had no emotional or histoncal ties to one side or the other,
~ they were able to grve their cleaz, ob~ectrve view Another strength is that they were able
to obtam staff mput with confidential mterviews The report shows respect for both
groups that aze commg together, another key element m treatmg both groups as partners
m the process The report recogmzes the mcreasmg need for land management as the
populanon of the azea contmues to grow and we contmue to have more and more visrtors
through our Mountazn Parks and Open Space. He feels the auditors also recogmzed the
importance of ineldmg two groups mto one and how best to accomphsh that - through full
mtegrat~on of the functions of the new department With regazd to the name, he beheves
the departrnent should have a new name, however Natural L,ands doesn't sit well with
lum as the lands are not natural anymare. He is m full support of a new department wIIh
new leaderslup. In 33 years with the federal government, he has seen very vibrant
organizations change leadership. It has been raze that when the leadership has changed
that those groups have not stayed vibrant. For example, the duector of 12 yeazs at NCAR
is about to rehre and Peterson suspects that he will be replaced by someone equally
talented and the orgamzat~on won't miss a beat. Peterson said that when you have an
orgamzation with quahty employees, adequate resources, a cleaz mission, and support
from their managers, with new leaderslup they go nght on, domg their~ob and domg it
well With regard to the charter change, Peterson beheves that some fine tumng, as
discussed, is appropnate. If it ~s presented to the crtizens m a way that lets them know
that ma~or changes aze not proposed, he feels that cirizens will support it Splithng off
the Real Estate division is difficult for him to judge but he can offer the expenence of the
~' last four yeazs where the Pazks and Recreahon Department and Mountazn Parks Division
both purchased land through [he Real Estate Div~sion, along with the staff and PRAB's
mvolvement He feels that this is a cleaz example of how that division can work m an
mdependent role from the department II is servmg. Peterson feels that the seven members
of the boazd for the new organization is a good idea and that more people with broader
expenence would be appropnate. He fully suppoRs the mazn conclusions of a new
department and new leadership
Secnst asked the Boazd to provide through Chris an mdication of what their decision is
with regazd to the Febmary 28`" meehng
Meeting ad~ourned at 7:24 p m
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~,,,,, PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD NIEETING
t,~, City Council Chambers
1777 Broadway
Friday February 11, 2000
6:00 p.m.
AGENDA
6:00 - 7:30 p.m. Discussion of the Conservat~on Impact, Inc. report to the City Manager on
City of Boulder Management Audit of Parks and Recreation/Mountazn
Pazks Division and Open Space/Real Estate Department
Shelh Bischoff of Conservauon lmpact, Inc. will make a short presentaaon
and be avulable for questions. Ttus will be a discussion between the
Pazks and Recreanon Advisory Boazd, consuitants and City Manager.
/~+ Times shown aze approx~mate only. Public comment will not be heazd
~,,,,. comment on park and recreauon needs m the commumry will be provu
February 28, 2000 Pazks and Recreaaon Advisory Boazd meeeng Fo
7242
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