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HomeMy WebLinkAboutHandout, Preliminary minutes of OSBT 02/09/00 meeting. ~~~YL C~ ~ ~7~ ~~~'v~ ~ ~lJ-~~0~, Pre[iminary minutes of OSBT 2/9/00 meeting please note these m:nutes have not yet been submitted to the OSBTfor rev:ew and approval ~ ~,,,,. Excerpt Follows AGENDA ITEM 3- Discussion of the Management Audit City Manager Ron Secnst gave an overview and history of inerger discussions since he has been here, uicluding Council's request that he look at a consolidation of Mountain Pazks and Open Space His report last yeaz idenhfied two options that he felt had merit. Council reviewed both of these options, conducted public hearings, and stated rts preference for the option that would bring Mountain Pazks into Open Space. There was also consensus about the benefit of conducting a management audit before proceeding with a preferred altemative The audit would help identify funchonal overlaps, cost efficiencies and reduc6on in FTEs Mr Secnst identified the process used to proceed v~nth the audit, which included involvement of a core staff team. His purpose m meetuig with the OSBT and (on Friday mght, February 11, 2000) the PRAB, is to give the Boazds an opporlucuty to ask clarification from the consultants, and for hun receive feedback from the Boazds about the report and the issue. Mr. Secnst will then prepaze a report and recommendat~on for Council, who have received the auditor's report, and receive Council's direction as to how they would like to proceed He assumes that tlus direction will come somehme in Mazch Ron Secrist then introduced Will Murray and Shelly Bischoff, Conservation Impact LLC, and invited them to describe the audit process. ~ Will Murray thanked the staff of both organizatrons who provided mvaluable assistance dunng the audrt process. He sazd that a management audrt's purpose is to look for efficiencies and effectiveness, and ways to improve things. He sazd that staff of both orgazuzahons is highly professional, competent and dedicated This is a system unhke any other m the world, and we should all appreciate that we have something special here. He described theu role as having been to document facts related to efficiencies, wrth the goal of determimng the efficiency and effechveness of the organizahon(s) and how those might be improved, whether or not a different orgazuzahonal structure might be more advantageous in actueving efficiencies and effectiveness; and laymg out a two-yeaz blueprint as to how these changes might be accomplished. In order to deternvne this information, they looked at documentation that was available over the last many yeazs (147 documents in total), including information used in other merger discussions. They looked at interpretive matenals and web sites of both orgazuzations, as well as finances. Mr. Mwray and Ms Bischoff also interviewed a lazge number of staff inembers in both organizations, as well as Boazd and Council members and the City Manager The interviews were held with strict confidentiality rules in order to receive the best mformahon possible. Additionally, they conducted observahons both m the offices of staff members and in the field to get a feel of what the issues aze. Shelly Bischoff gave a bnef summary of the report, including the three main cntena that they considered m the final recommendation. Any decision had to protect the resource, best serve and be accountable to the pubhc, and there had to be some cost efficiencies. She said they looked at a vanety of altematives, and their recommendarion to create a new orgazuzation is the one they feel best meets the described cntena. This new ~"'~organizahon, to be known as "Natural Lands", would be orgazuzed by fixnchon, as described m the report, and ~~staffed as such. Their recommendahon mcludes a plan to implement theu suggeshons and the transihon process. G \osbtMmutes\00-2093 doc 1 Return to Board Chns Mueller said that he had some big issues that he would explore later, the biggest one bemg the dismantlmg of one of the two programs, and significantly weakening that program. He asked how acqwsitions would be ~ financed if the acquisitions group were to be part of the City Manager's Office. Shelly Bischoff said that the acquisitions would be funded the same way that it is now They made no recommendahons for changmg the financing of acquisrtions. The only recommendahon they made for change was that the director of real estate and the director of the new department would be paid out of general funds Lmda Andes-Georges asked if salanes would be reallocated back to Open Space. Ms Bischoff said that their recommendation is that the salaries comes out of the general fund, staff would make decisions about cost allocation There was discussion about funding, budgets, and general fund vs. Open Space fund costs. Ron Secrist said that lus assumphon has been that funds now dedicated by general fund to support Mountain Pazks would in fact roll over into the combined orgazuzation, and that savings from operating costs would roll into Open Space acquisrtions. He acknowledged that tlus might not be completely clear in the report. Crystal Gray asked about posrtion totals, and why posihons were added to the real estate group, as well as the biologist bemg added to Pazks and Recreation Shelly Bischoff said they recogmzed the importance of acquisition, and the unportance of hmuig, thus the mcrease m the number of staff m that group The biologist position was created to assist Pazks and Recreation with expertise currently provided by mountam pazks, wluch would no longer be avazlable with ttus new scenario. Suzanne Bohan asked if there was considerahon given to sphttmg real estate staff between the CMO and the new orgazuzahon Ms Bischoff said the~r preference was to keep the real estate group together, and that sepazahng it from management and maintenance would provide the focus necessary to accomphsh tlvs important task for Open Space, and other city departments ~ Chris Mueller said that many others who have looked at tlus over the last few years have concluded that you could save some duplicahon of posihons if there was a consohdation of the two progranis. He queshoned the addition of real estate people, and wondered why the rest of the report resulted in elimmating staffing numbers, without sumlaz types of ineasures as those explazned for the real estate staff numbers He was mterested to heaz that the ntunber was based on comparable orgazuzahons, even though rt was eazher stated that there aze no real compazable organizahons Mr. Murray said that they looked at visitation, and other sunilaz programs., uicludmg other counhes, National Pazk Service, etc. There aze many unique aspects about Boulder's system, and while comparisons were useful, their staffing recommendations were based on the funchons provided by the organizations, based on the plulosoplues of both groups, and what the fuhue might look like. Crystal Gray sazd they have never been asked for more real estate staff, but they always get requests for more resource management staff. She would like to see extra positions put in resource management rather than m real estate, and feels that staff mput on where positions should be will be important. Larry McDonnell commented on the pnmary recommendatron/conclusion of the audit that a new department is the answer. He referred to comments m the report about management, and wondered how those would be addressed by a merger. Shelly Bischoff said that the report is orgazuzed into two sepazate sections - the audrt, wluch addresses management issues, and the recommendation on the merger. Larry MacDonnell asked for examples of how we would better provide services and better protect the resource by this merger recommenda6on Will Murray pomted out that the new orgazuzauon is heavily field onented, mcludmg a lazge ranger and maintenance staff The public likes to see people m the field, and heavy use of the land requires mazntenance, and a focus on the educahon funchon. Larry MacDonnell commented that this could be~ accomplished without a merger, or a new organization. He asked if the reallocation of lands was considered. "~~ Some Mountain Pazks lands would be more appropnate as Pazks land and some as Open Space. Will Murray G \osbtMmutes\00-2093 doc 2 sazd that the balance between resource use and preservahon was unportant, and that azvficial boundaries between the work people do made this more difficult, thus the recommended merger. r^ ~... Linda Andes-Georges sazd the four-month transition period does not seem realistic Shelly Bischoff said they arrived at this based on other expenences and rt is unportant to do it quickly. Ron Secnst clanfied that a charter change (a vote), if pursued, would have to occur first, then the transihon period would begm. Crystal Gray said that splitting real estate from Open Space, wrth two different directors, could result m many problems, includmg conflicts over how money is spent. She does not see this as a sustainable situation. Will Murray commented that real estate currendy provides services to other city departments, including Mountain Parks They would take d'uection from the new "Natural Lands" department the same way they currendy do from other crty departments, in a professional services environment. The new department would direct the work of the real estate staff, in a chent-service relationslup. Crystal Gray said the real estate staff currently plays a key role in strategizmg in acquisrtion decisions Scott Severs, 2905 E. Aurora #118, speaking as current president of Boulder County Nature Associahon said it is unportant not to compromise Boulder's Open Space program and the charter should not be jeopazdized. Do not separate real estate from the rest of Open Space. He questioned whether the acquisitions accomphshed tlus last yeaz could have been done with the real estate funchon outside of Open Space He expressed a concem with eliminahng staff positions. The current staff has done an excellent ~ob of protecnng the natural resources. Would that still be done witkt a reduction m staff? T'he August phone survey in which the public gave overwhelming support of Open Space should be considered. Open Space should not be compromised just for the sake of a merger. Pam Piombino, 6890 Frying Pan Rd , speaking for 1300 people of the Boulder County Audubon Society. T'he ~ Society's Boazd is very concerned wrth tlus merger. They know the general public is not pushing for the merger The public grves both Open Space and Mountain Parks high rat~ngs. The average citizen might support the merger with a$900,000.00 savings. They question tlus savings First of all, some of the biggest salaries will be merely shuttled to other departments. Also, if everyone currently working will be given ~obs m other departments, where are the true savings? They aze concerned about ehmmating staff posihons. The Audubon Society has first hand experience of how busy the staffs are. How can you take the full tune work of two people and expect one person to cover both bases? There is much lost productivity due to the endless rounds of inerger proposals They aze concerned about the real estate department moving to the City Manager's office without the oversight of the Open Space Boazd of Trustees Jim Crun has assembled a most impressive urban shaping legacy for the citizens of Boulder. It has been accomphshed by the strength of his vision, his superb acqwsition skills and has always been buoyed by the sohd support of Boulder crt~zens They suggest maintammg the status quo, i.e. keeping Open Space and Mountun Pazks sepazate and removing the current umbrella of uncertamty Any changes should be undertaken with great caze. Jon Aoward, 2990 Heidelberg, said if he had a chance to ask the consultants questions, he would first ask if rivo such natural resources departments have ever been so radically changed, and if so, what were the short term imphcahons for acqwsitions and long term effects on the natural resources? The second question would be, could an acquisition year like 1999 have been accomplished if a merger had been taking place~ Could it have occurred if the changes had been more simple like a reallocation? He also would ask if the land acquisition funchon has been separated from departmental oversight before? He recommends that the Board trust the judgment of the expenenced leaders who created the program. Wrth their support you will find the right answer. ~odd Kipfer, 3804 Northbrook Dr , works for Open Space but is here as a citizen and a concerned conservatiomst. In terms of the management audit, he knows Will Murray and has a lot of respect for him He G \osbt~mnutes\00-2093 doc 3 tlunks there is a lot of information in the report that is useful and mshuctrve to us, especially in terms of the findmgs Money and power has made Open Space successful. It has been drvorced from other funchons of the City That has been a big help The report sepazates more funchons into the City That will make tlungs more ~ comphcated and it ~nnll be hazder for Open Space stafFto do their~obs. As an Open Space staff person, he is ~.r' franhc m his job and overwhelmed every single day. It is really hard for him to read in the report the suggestion to cut staffing He would like to see bringing Mountain Pazks and Open Space together He would love to work with Mountain Pazks He has huge respect for them. He ttunks real estate should remain m Open Space and Mountain Pazks should be merged into Open Space. There has been no plazuung regazdmg the current frozen positions That has had a huge impact on stafF and maybe some of the fincLngs aze a result of tlus. If your car is overheating you do not drive rt into a lake. It might just be something smmple LeYs not dnve Open Space into a lake. Let's come up with some thoughtful and strategic ways to do the merger LeYs do rt soon and make rt happen Mike Figgs, 2635 Mapleton Ave. #77, has 20 years of expenence ui land conservahon work throughout the state of Colorado. His busmess has included working on acquisrtion and management of tens of thousands of acres of protected land The bottom line is that no merger is better than a bad merger. He also agrees wrth Larry MacDonnell that a merger will not solve some of the problems brought up by the audit report - mconsistent decision making and commwucaUon, and planning and implementauon disconnects It is not a struchual problem. It is a political problem He does not hke the way this report has come about. It is not respectful of the long tustory of this program. He asked the Boazd not to make charter changes tttat will weaken tlus program m any way. They may want to consider some potential changes that will strengthen it such as acquisihons stay in the deparhnent. Also, any admiiristrative pmposal to assign general fund expenditures to the Open Space fund must be approved by the voters He also wants to retain the current budgets for both programs and to retain the current structure of Open Space. He does not want acquisitions moved out oF Open Space. He knows of no other program that does that. He thinks ttus is a way to get hm Crain out and that is unacceptable Real estate '~ acquisition is dnven by opportunity He does not ttunk there should be a change m program leaderslup without an urgent need and fully disclosed rahonale. He thmks the report reflects that Mountaui Pazks staff does not want to work under Jim Crazn. That is not acceptable cntena. It is very important to have any ma~or changes approved by the pubhc. Ed Mills,1119 Maxwell Ave , current president of FIDOS, gave thanks for the presentahon and the clanficahon of the four month time line. He ttunks recommendations of management audrt aze both positrve and a step forwazd He believes rt will preserve the attributes of both programs Bruce Bland, 1340 Lehigh, spoke on behalf of PLAN Boulder County and presented their position Mountain Pazks land should be mcorporated into the Open Space department as described in the City Manager's Oprion 1 Mountain Pazks lands should be controlled by the Open Space Boazd of Trustees and placed under its charter The general fund appropriation for the management of Mountazn Pazks Lands must be transferred to the Open Space Department and any reduction must be made over a five to ten yeaz phase-out period. There should be no sigmficant orgazuzational changes m the Open Space department at tlus time. A new department should eventually be created to manage Open Space and Mountazn Pazks lands. Consideration of tlus ophon should be a second phase after the mitial consohdation. A three year transiUon penod is suggested. None of the charter provisions which define and protect Open Space lands should be altered or repealed. The City Charter requirement that the revenues to the current Open Space Fund shall be used for no other purpose must be retained. Ricky Weiser, 4020 N. 75'", supports the PLAN Boulder proposal She would add three pomts. She would leave ~ the developed azeas of Flagstaff with the Pazks and Recreahon Department Conservahon easements that have G \osbt~nmuus\004093 doc 4 been created by Open Space should not be ~eopazd~zed. This element of the Open Space prograzn was completely ignored by the audit report. It should be directly addressed The well-known and nahonally respected name "Open Space" should not be changed Open Space has a nafional reputa6on under that name. Also, the Natural ~ Area concept, at state and county levels, has its own idenhty Cindy Carlisle, 411 Spruce St , is a long hme supporter and user of Open Space, is a former council member and a 32 year resident of Boulder. She thinks both of the City Manager's proposals could spell disaster and are high nsk Not only could we lose a director with enormous tenacity and vision, but we would balkanize a program whose strength has been a umfied and focused approach to Open Space acquisihon and mamtenance Now is the worst rime to break up the department and pazcel out its duries The next five years will be critical for Open Space acquisrtions She urges to Boazd to send a strong message to the City Council to leave Open Space the way it is now. Bob Crifasi, 3257 Hawthorne Hollow, an Open Space employee, thinks there is a chance for us to do the right thing now He would like to let the Boazd know that the decision making in acquiring land includes resource people. It is lus behef that splitting real estate off from the Open Space program would be a strategic mistake, at least for the next ten yeazs or so. It is important that we have mformed decision makmg as we go mto tkus process and that we have accurate mformation. There are numerous factual maccuracies m the report and he hopes there will be opportumhes to correct some of those, particulazly in the azea of staff redundancy. It is di~cult for us as staff to read that there are redundancies when everyone seems to be overworked Julie Kreitzer, Open Space Chair for the Indian Peaks Sierra Club, has a resolution from the club wkuch she will summanze They have some concerns wrth the audit report. The audit emphasizes consolidation for efficient management but does not dwell on effects of the acquisihon of addirional lands. We aze m the middle ~',of complicated and delicate negot~ahons for city Open Space wluch could be~eopazdized if we move mcorrectly or if general confusion results. T'he name "Natural Lands" misrepresents the character of some of the lands that remam to be acquired. They support merger but many of the flaws have to be addressed. We need to prevent any mterrupUon in acquisitions. We need to place consolidated lands under the oversight of the Open Space Board of Trustees, not a new board, so we can avoid a charter vote. We need to create a transition plan wrth public input that is not fast tracked and is finalized before the more cnhcal items of consolidation take place They have some real doubts about the $900,000 00 savings because it seems to do it primanly with staff reductions. The flaw seems to be that the report assumes the staff aze domg redundant ttungs. It looks like one staff person will be doing the work of 2 under this new program This will not work and we will lose expertise in the process as well There is inconsistency in the report where it complains that the boazds are not responsive to the public. On the other hand, it says the depamnents are inefficient because they change their plans when they hear from the public She does not believe the rivo groups aze mefficient. They have accomplished so much. She does not want Jim Crazn under house arrest in the crty manager's office. She wants him to have the ability to acquire land as zealously as he has done m the past. Please make the changes cazefully and with respect Roger Ewy, 4082 Old West6ury Ct , is a nahve Coloradan and asked why we would want to break up a successful department in favor of a questionable savmgs. It will be very costly to make charter changes and to shuffle the departments. Don't fix what isn't broken. Citizens vote again and agazn to fund Open Space. Don't put the city budget on the back of Open Space Don't let Boulder become like Broomfield on the turnpike. An example m tlus directron that already eacists m Boulder is the srte at the northeast entrance to Boulder wluch will ~haue a hotel and 5 office buildings. Open Space is a completely different concept from pazks. He queshons tkat Mountam Parks and Open Space have the same goals. He thinks their management practices aze diffezent. If you destroy the Open Space department and Jim Crain you will be killmg the goose that laid the golden egg G \osbt~nmutes\004093 doc 5 Richard Reynolds, 4263 Eldorado Springs Dr., wrote a letter regazding the management audit which was read by Doug Pagels. He is alanned by the possible merger. It would damage public trust m our government First, it would reqiure changes in the charter It would also place the responsibihty of Open Space purchases in the ~ City Manager's office instead of m the hands of profess~onals with proven track records The crtizens have supported our current Open Space departrnent and program for many decades Do not support the changes suggested in the management audrt. Doug Pagels, 4384 Eldorado Springs Dr said that foreign students aze awed by the Open Space program. They come from a place that mirrors our own future, from azeas wrth crowded condrtions and questionable quahries of hfe Two thuigs that aze very important to tum and that aze too lightly dealt wrth m the report are 1) the rich and very rewarding lustory of the Open Space pmgrun; and 2) the future of acquisitions. Do not put acqmsitions into the City Manager's office. Keep it m Open Space where there is the most expenence The audit tends to forget the heart and soul of Open Space and attempts to reduce issues to busmess terms, and full time posirions to bottom hnes Tim Hogan, 2540 6th St , BCNA, has worked wrth both Open Space and Mountain Pazks staff over the yeazs and has a tremendous amount of respect and gra6tude for all of them He ttunks there are some areas for change but they do not go to the eatent of the report. He tlunks rt is a way of movmg dedicated Open Space funds into the City general fund. Both organizahons aze strong and doing the nght tlungs for the plants and azumals and the lands we love The August survey shows us that the pubhc likes what Open Space is doing. He asks that the Boazd not to change the charter and not take real estate out of Open Space Ruth Wright,1440 High St., supports some kuid of consolidahon. But she thmks the consultants missed the big picture The report grves acqwsitions only Yz page. We aze not about to let Open Space be dismembered m~ the yeaz 2000. Removing acquisrtions from this program is teanng out its heart Real estate should be overseen by the Open Space Boazd of Trustees and staff and should be sub~ect to public input and the charter There are scary words m the report about the proposed real estate office. "As a special office, it will operate wrth great flexibility and autonomy It will have full authority over the use of the Open Space acqwsihon dollazs as allowed by law." It is important to ask who will decide how much will be used for acquisrtions versus management. If this goes to a vote it will not pass. We need to get more realistic. Janet Roberts wrote a letter read by Ruth Wnght She is deeply disappomted She queshoned why there was not an analysis of more than one altemarive The proposed altemahve is virtually idenhcal to the City inanager's ophon 1 A Most advantages of the proposed altemahve could be realized as well by mergmg Mountaui Parks mto the existmg Open Space department with no further changes Why not openly acknowledge that the recommendation for a new department is mdeed a polihcal decision based on personality conflict Tkus report assumes it will be easy to get charter changes done. Keep the vision and do not sepazate acquisitions from the Open Space department. Greg Hayes, 3200 S. Foothills Hwy., thinks that what is bemg missed here is that tkus is not really science, rt is an art. Jim Crazn has taken rt to that level and it is very difficult for someone to come from the outside and understand how he works. He is an expert at acqwsrtions There aze other dedicated and knowledgeable staff who also bnng conrinuity and trust to the department He recommends not to change tlungs Connie Holsinger, 4145 Guadaloupe, president of Terra Foundahon, stated that the Terra Foundation has jus~ completed the first yeaz of a three year planned restoration for the Coal Creek ripanan azea. They spent $70,000.00 tlus past yeaz and aze pro~ected to spend over $20Q000 00 over the next two yeazs. They aze G \osbt~nmuces\00-2093 doc ( panc~ipatmg m this restoraUon pro~ect because the city's Open Space ptulosophy and goals match theus. They believe in the Open Space acquisrtion plan However, they aze concerned about the proposed Natural Lands ~ Department and will withdraw their support if the integnty of Open Space is at risk They feel Open Space should be autonomous. Do not fix sometlung that is not broken The City as a whole should take pnde m the Open Space land legacy. Instead we have a demoralized staff m yeazly attempts to undemune the Open Space mandated ob~echves. She asked the Boazd to once and for all end these discussions that undermine the future of an autonomous Open Space department. Susan Ross, 3510 Nyland Way, works for Open Space as the volunteer coordmator She has concerns wrth the report Will now stick with the big picture Among her volunteers, their number one concem is to protect the resource by making sure the charter stays mtact. She has concerns with the report wluch cuts staff yet adds volunteers who need staff supervision. She works well with the Mountam Pazks volunteer coordinator and will continue to do that no matter what is adopted. There are many things that could be done without spending money and without making a chazter change. 'fhey just take some direction Why fix something that is not broken~ If we can do thuigs better she is all for rt. She loves the idea that they may eventually be one organization. She would hate to see it be bome on the backs of the volunteers. No volunteers have told her that things need to change Diane Andrews, P.O. Box 350, Lyons, is currently employed on a temporary basis as a natural resource specialist for Open Space She supports the consolidation of Open Space and Mountain Pazks, but has some concerns about the way we achieve that goal. These concems center on the protection of the natural resources on Open Space and Mountain Pazks lands As we all know, the system of lands managed by Open Space and Mountam Parks is growutg in s~ze Recreational use of these lands is also growing, causing mcreasing ~mpacts on natural resources. All this translates mto an increasmg workload on the staff responsible for the management ~ of these lands The Management Audit report highhghts the increased pressure on the land and the increasing need for resource management And yet the Audit recommends that sixteen full time positions can be cut from the combmed staffs of Open Space and Mountam Pazks The Audit Report is lacking an analysis that would provide jusUficahon for the staffing level recommendations it contazns There is no analysis of the effects on the ground of cuttmg 16 posiuons from these two departments, no discussion of current work plans, or of wluch land management projects would have to be trimmed or eliminated. Staff is currently stretched to theu hmrts. Dennis Berry, 3675 Catalpa Way, uutially supported the status quo There aze many cihzens who do not know the difference between Open Space and Mountam Pazks. Those wrapped up in tlus probably can see the differences. The Audit Report does not say we would eliminate major charter provisions. Combimng the two organizahons would create a single du~ectaon for staff and trtat would be good. Real estate has always said they serve all departments in the City equally well. He thiuks what the consultants proposal regazding the real estate funct~on could actually work that way Dave Sutherland, 1951 Edgewood, is the Mountazn Pazks education specialist. His ma~or concem is that some pieces of Mountain Pazks land will not go mto Open Space Ecosystems do not respect polrtical boundanes If the Board is concerned about use levels on some of the lands in Mountain Pazks, just go out and visit Mt Sazutas or South Mesa Trailheads on a weekend and you cannot even find a pazkmg place Some of Mountazn Pazks land and some of Open Space lands have high levels of usage. So he does not see that as a legitimate criteria for cookie cuthng out a chunk of an ecosystem and leaving it aside. If the heavy use areas aze left wrth another agency you are makmg it hazder to proactively deal with use issues that will spill over the boundanes. ~Mark Gershman, 650 Hawthorn Ave., worked about 10 yeazs in the Open Space program Staff at both orgazuzations aze competent, crearive and dedicated m resource conservation and visitor services A merger is G \osbtUnmutes\00•2093 doc 7 mevitable and would be a good tlung for the City There would be synergy wrth these rivo staffs working together and providing more service to the public. A merger should take what is strong m both departments T'he strength of the Mountain Pazks system is the dedicated staff and their spec~al land The strong point of the ,~ Open Space program is the land system and the dedicated staff and, perhaps most importantly, the charter ,,,,+ provtsions that keep it strong Bill DeOreo, 3030 25'" St , past member of the Open Space Boazd of Trustees. He wants to address the internal contradichons of tlus process. We say we aze strivmg for efficiencies Yet a yeaz ago we were at the same place we aze now At that time the City Council came up with the position that does not require a charter change, to merge Mountaui Pazks into Open Space. If we go wrth what is proposed rt will take us a ininimum of 15 months before we can be fixnctiorung again. In the meantime we will probably lose the services of one of the best department heads we have ever had. You will not replace lum by hinng 3 more FTE's in the real estate department. He thinks consolidation is a good idea. We should go back to mergmg Mountain Pazks into Open Space. Chris Morrison, 4100 Aurora Ave., has some problems with the proposal The result will be an effective transfer of $900,000 from the Open Space fund into the City's general fund. When things get right it will go. Real estate should stay m Open Space until acqutsitions slow down Nothmg is wrong with the current system He sees no reason to change tlungs. Joe Mantione, 3011 Washington, works for Mountazn Parks and said there needs to be an effort to build on common ground. It is not about the money It is about the land There is not a fundamental difference between Mountazn Pazks and Open Space plulosophy and approach He sazd rt is also a myth that the rivo departments cannot work together. There is not a plot to undemune Open Space or to steal money from Open Space Do not weaken the Open Space charter (that is not proposed). Do not decrease acquisition funding Do not cut ~# management staff unless we know for sure we achieve greater efficiencies We have to stop bickering Bruce Bland, 1340 Lehigh, speaking as an mdrvidual, said there is no pressing need to develop a new department All changes that need to be done can be accomplished m the current structure. What do we save~ It appears, based on the salary figures, that we aze preparing the Duector of Real Estate position for Jim Cram and the new Mountam Parks biologist posihon for Ann Wichmann We aze then gomg to ture a tlurd manager wluch will cost an addihonal $130,000 00 annually We really do not need to lure this manager because we have two very competent managers right now Any savuigs we have will accrue whether we create a new department or whether we merge all mto Open Space. He quesdons the savings of $900,000 00 The staff of both orguuzations aze very busy What he sees is not efficiencies but reduchon m services by cuttmg so many posrtions. We need more educahon and rangers. He does not think we should cut those areas There aze some positive thmgs in the report There are some efficiencies to be gamed, particulazly m management Return to Board Chns Mueller commented about the many wise thmgs sazd by those who have spoken He feels strongly that acquisitions needs to stay in the department It is crihcal to integrate policy and acqmsitions As Ruth Wnght said there is much land yet to be acquired The tustory of ttus program is that rts horizons have lengthened over the yeazs, as citizens have been shocked by the increased urban sprawl. When you look at what is happemng azound us, maybe we will revise our honzons agam. Keeping acquisrtions m Open Space is crihcal, and (meazung no disrespect), the Ctty Manager is not the nght person to supervise the teal estate function. Tha1 acquisiUons funchon of the program needs the uidependence rt has now He does not thmk this could be changed`•~r~ by a"sunple" charter change - it would be a huge change. He agrees with the previous speakers that the ciUzens G \osb[Mmu[es\00-2093 doc of Boulder would react strongly agamst this change. His other main problem with the recommendarions made in the report ~s the disconnect between increasmg ~ efficiencies by creahng a new department. He does not see that the soluhon to make a better whole is to weaken and divide the department as the report suggests. He agrees we should keep the name, Open Space. It has a certazn cachet, is descnphve of what we do, and is part of the lustory There is no problem wittt adding Mountain Pazks to the name Another pomt that is important is that the audit report does not say where savings will go and where costs will be borne If mountain pazks land comes mto open space, the appropriate general funds should come with it. It is cnhcal to address where the savings will go. One supposition is that some of the savings realized v~nll go mto the general fund. He would make a pitch that some of the savings realized should go into acquisitions. Finally, Chns Mueller addressed the issue of different types of lands/ecosystems. There aze some azeas m the Mountain Pazks system that aze cleazly at odds with and not m keeping with the Open Space charter _ Flagstaff is one example, and Uus issue needs to be addressed if there is a consohdahon of the lands. Some Mountain Pazks properties aze cleazly recreation oriented, m ways that aze incompatible with some of the tkungs we do That, by the way, would cleazly reduce the savings that might be realized by any consolidation. Chns Mueller said that he believes that Jim Crain is and has been essentral to the success of the Open Space program He does not think we would have had the success we have had wrthout someone like him, and there aren't many people hke tum, with the passion and dedication that make the program work. His services to this progam have not only been mvaluable for the last 20 years, but there are many yeazs left m wluch we can e~cpect more wonderful things from him. A consolidafion that would lose lus services is a consolidation that is not worth ~ doing. Crystal Gray expressed her appreciatron for the many fine speakers, and may repeat theu comments m her future discussions on this issue First of all, she agrees that we need to keep our wonderful, proud names, Open Space and Mountain Pazks - wluchever way we go. They define something special. Second, she believes that acquisihons needs to stay wrth the department. She appreciated the attendance and comments by staff: It shows that we do have a very professional staff , and she believes that they must be consulted. Please call upon their professionalism, and use their suggeshons m making things work. Part of professionalism is dealing with change. Crystal Gray acknowledged that real estate serves other city departments, and does not see this as reason enough to move tlus group to the City Manager's Office. She would lilce the Board to discuss Larry MacDonnell's proposal, and would really like to heaz more from Ruth Wright about the charter. She requested that the public input from tonight be conveyed to pazks boazd meehng since they will not have public parncipahon at their meering Linda Andes-Georges asked for clanficahon about Larry MacDonnell's proposal Crystal Gray said she was referring to his comment about bringmg all of the land mto Open Space Linda Andes-Georges complimented the consultants on their report, in spite of some vagueness. It is the first unbiased evaluahon of these two departrnents from an outside source She acknowledged theu uhlizahon of documents and staff input; it was an extensive study and that is important to keep m mmd. She liked the idea of reduced facilities, the concept of ranger distncts, a single point of access for pubhc mformation, and a respect for both programs by a meld ~ather than an adoption. She still questions the potential for savuigs. She was pleased wrth the lazge number of people who were concerned enough to come out and speak. She regrets that there is not going to be public input on Friday night (PRAB meeting). She loves this program, and is wary of tampenng with a successful program, G \osbtMmutes\00-2093 doc 9 though she does think that the two programs ought to be together The big question is how - how to make it happen and how fast. There is probably more than one way to make a merger work There is a lot of fear, and that needs to be addressed She would hke to see us move m the direchon of a new department and a new ~ pazadigm, but maybe a httle less preciprtously She ttunks it would obtain the endorsement of most of the opponents of the alternahve merger scenano, where Open Space would gobble Mountam Pazks, if we had a new department She wants efficiencies to happen, but sees how busy current stafF is, and would like to heaz more about how to make ttus work. The community goal should be to make these two programs better, and protect the core values, including dealing with charter issues and dedicated funding. She does not have an opmion on where to put real estate, and beheves that the City Manager and/or the transrtion team can better make those decisions Larry MacDonnell sazd tttat he is not satrsfied vrnth havmg only one choice. His preference would be to transfer Mountain Pazks land with Open Space character into the Open Space department. That bnngs those lands under charter protection He believes that the commwuty would like to see that happen. These lands a11 deserve that level of protection. He would not change the name, and does not feel a charter change is necessary. In fact, it is an uncomfortable idea He believes that real estate must stay wittun Open Space, at least that part that deals with Open Space rtself. He is convmced that the whole process used m purchasmg lands is very connected with managing land, and it is important to retain that connection. He is okay with Open Space funds paymg for the management of Mountam Pazks land, saymg that if these lands were available for purchase today, it would be a wonderful acqmsihon. These lands should be well protected and well managed. He hopes we make tlus happen - it needs to move forwazd, without makmg all of the changes required in the consultanYs proposal He has a very lugh regazd for Mountaui Pazks staff, and thinks they could be very happy in tlus scenario (Mountain Pazks coming mto Open Space) The real challenge is how to do that. hm Crain has had 20 pretty spectaculaz years to build an Open Space program - leYs give him one more real ~'"A challenge to bnng these departments together "' Suzanne Bohan said she is generally supportrve of the audit report wrth some concems She likes the recommendahon for a new department, and the functional organization of that, especially the emphasis on visrtor uses She also likes the flattemng of the organization, wrth fewer managers. The new department would respect the tustories of both Open Space and Mountam Pazks, somethmg we heazd a lot about m earlier discussions. Building on the best of both orgazuzations is critrcal. Tlus would not happen if Mountain Pazks is ~ust put into the current Open Space organizahon She does not see the proposed charter changes as a threat; they aze mmor changes. Regazdmg moving real estate, she sees no reason to do this. As rt is now, it works very well, certamly for Open Space, and she assumes for the rest of the City. In terms of leaderslup, Suzanne Bohan agrees with the recommendahon that we start a new orgazuzahon wnth a new leader, utihzing the expemse of current leaders m the transmon. She agrees with the recommendations of the auditors that the new person needs to have experience in mergers, and the abihty to coalesce different staffs with a long, at times rocky, lustory She does not believe that the proposed four-month transition is realistic, and it is important to clarify when the actual transition period would begm. There aze many people in Boulder who will want a stake in tlus process. We need to be commwucahng, cleazly and concisely, with the public, and be responsrve to the pubhc. In terms of the transrtion plan, she would recommend that selection of a new leader be done at the outset of the plan, wlule workuig on charter changes Regarding Mountain Pazks lands, she believes we could probably get by with keeping all of Mountam Pazks lands together. Suzamie Bohan expressed some concerns about the staffing secrion She does not have a good sense that the~ recommended cuts could really be sustamed, and suggested that a work load analysis would be useful in makmg G \osbttrnmuces\00-2093 doc 1 ~ these determuiations. This is a level of detail for the transit~on team and staff, not a boazd issue. She also feels that the report is uncleaz about funding issues. She would strongly suggest that if the two groups were ~,,,,, consolidated, that the funds curtently budgeted for Mountain Pazks be bmught into the new deparhnent, and that ~,,,,, money does not go back into the general fund. Any savings should stay in the new department, and with the program. There is a lot of land left to be acquired, and many management needs that go with these lands Crystal Gray said that she does not feel that the recommendahons m the audit report aze sustainable, specifically the staffing levels and the sepazation of real estate from the department. She also feels that the savmgs aze questionable. She would like to see a merger make things stronger and allow for continuing a really strong acquisihon program Her preference is to include the Flagstaff azea in this azrangement, though she would like more staff input on this part of the issue. Crystal Gray rerterated the unportance of keeping real estate in tlus department. Larry MacDonnell clarified the idea of transferring appropriate Mountain Pazks land, and staff, into Open Space, rather than forming a new department. Areas such as the south end of Boulder Reservoir, Flagstaff Mountain, etc., would be retamed as part of the Pazks/Mountain Pazks system, leaving Mountain Pazks as a unit of Pazks, if that is what Pazks wants. Ron Secrist thanked the Boazd for its feedback, and that of the audience After heating from PRAB, he will prepare a report to the City Council, asking them for cleaz direction as to how to proceed. At that time, Council will provide specific direchon, which can then be returned to the Boazd(s) and to the pubhc. Suzanne Bohan thanked everyone for their efforts and comments. ~ End of excerpt ~ G \osbtMmutes\00-2093 doc 1 1