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7B - Valmont Park Update ContinuedAttachment D ^ Pieasant ~ew Usage and Neighborhood Issues I1/13/00 " Mediated by Mazk Lande Staff Teri Olander, Dave Brown, Ray Fiedler Eleven people attended the meeting to express their issues with Pleasant wew The meeting began with Dave Brown and Teri Olander giving the public information about the comples and challenges the City of Boulder faces 1 The City of Boulder is trying to controi fieids for designated sports-soccer and rugby 2 COB wouid like to make the parking lot usable and still be able to comrol activity on the fields and eliminate the safety problem from trafficlparldng issue on 4'7i6 St. 3. PV is a permit only facility, not a city park 4. Maintenance employees are having a hard time explaining ttus is a permitted facility, not a pazk This cmates conflict and changes staff rote from maintenance to poticing. 5 There are safety concerns for damage done to the Selds by non-permitted use-ruts &om bikes, hitting golf balls, people don't pick up after dog~&ids slip or turn ankles, n-nning path surrounding facility turned into uneven surFace, creates trip hazards 6 Vandalism creates safety hazazds and cost COB $25,000 plus 7. COB riying to provide for many users. We service 3500 youth and 1300 adults each season at PV '~' 8 Staff working with user graups to get information out to ail coaches and participants ,~ about rules-hasn't been successfui in keeping people offfieid. Teams still come early and create pazking problems Ticketing is not a good soIution-bad PR 9. Safety concerns-parking on 4'7ie St , permit holders have $1,000,000 insurance policy, tliose without pernut don't Users on field during mowing and other maintenance Qaestions and Concems from the Public FundinQ Who funded and mau-tains fieids? Is this private or public facility-concem over the idea that facility is tax funded, hut restricted to single use Tax money is used for maintenance I should tell you how to spend all of my tax money Concern over taxes being used for single use space The taxpayer will not be as generous on future related bond issues if they are e:~cluded from such faciliries +'..' ti.., Commuaitv Snace „~ How can we make tlus a community space- not single-use space~ Concem that fields lie dormazrt during off season ...+' Address "patterns of practice" -before the fields were built many people used this area for dogs even though it wasn't allowed. These people should have rights to use the area North Boulder Comprehensive piazrunderstood the laad swap and development fell under requirement for building of Four Mile Creek residential azea Opposed to fence because it is unsightly and not supportive of community Sense of betrayal-not abie to use fields, impacts sense of community Sense of fear and anger from the City, but no need~on't he worried about liabitity and safety so much Land swap was done with good iate~ion, but now need to look for altemative to single-use Idea that spaces such as this should serve general community as gathecing place-too much emphasis on orgamzed spoRS-not in alignment with family values Can't use Palo Park, too many soccer teams Space is important to whole community, fence will tuin beauty Do s Dogs don't damage fields Can't stop people from using fields-work with them, grandfather current users in There azen't dog bags People drive to facility with their dogs If you create a dog park, that doesn't help me, I don't like dog parks-too many dogs ~ ...< We aren't the one's doing damaae Police should patrol the area for vandals, not people using fac~7ity illegally Don't hoid everyone responsible for acts of a few Wani to be allowed, but don't allow others Let us sign a waiver that we can use the fields and we won't sue the City ~f we get hurt Fences will keep out eh law keepers, not the vaadals Fields don't meet ldds needs-if fenced off, the kids that use without pernut will haue to go somewhere else Concern over lack of security of property Park vs Athletic Facilitv Damage of PV can't cost as much as daznage in a park Elitist facility City should change their attitude Need multi use area in Boulder Very hard to maintain space for soccer and have it open to general use Could mandate for fields as single use be changed~ ~ a. / a... Par[zing Concern over parking on Cortiente and Palo Pazkway-clogs streets, trash, speeding-safety of -~-~ children. Use the wedge of land on other side of 471e for more open grass and garldng Bike lane on 471e is biocked because gaYe is locked Could fenced parldng lot be part of the solution? Other !'"^ +...r ~ How to educate community about tUings like frost, trash and soccer players Pields used by people outside Boulder Enforce existing laws rather than fence facility. Keep atl participants of tonight's meeting be informed of further developmerrts Where would a fence be installed if it isT Not all non-single use users are vandals-is there a better way to control access to the fields~ Stazio and EM aren't near neighborhoods Comments from Staff (not discussed at meeting) Damage is done in off season also Service more youth at this facility than any other Safety issue when maintenance ia try to mow and other work Runners on perimeter create safery probiem-uneven tw~ trip hazard How is tlris different &om other special uses-softball, baseball, skatepark Maintain without people using it Look into area off Diagonal and 4'7~ Randy Bjerke owns azea -planning office park-already a traffic problem, this will be worse--Liz in Planning is familiar with site How can tlus be elitist when we provide a place for 2500-3000 youth each spring and fall-where else in the City are that mazry frids provided opportuniUes7 It's noi just one use-iYs used for soccer, rugby and ultimate frisbee Single use? Stazio, Scott Carpenter ballfield, dog parks, skatepazk-all single use facilities Q• Won't fund additionat bond issues because they're excluded~ A They'te not excluded from activities-they choose not to participate in those activities Q• How can we make this community space~ A. This wasn't designated by the PRAB as commumty space Need to protect the fields in off season to help promote healthy growth in spring 3. Attachment E Letters to the Editor ,,~ y~ ACCESS ~ ,~ City should not limit fields' use After attending a community meeting in November, I was dismayed to learn that the Boulder Ciry Parks and Recreation Departrnent has decided that use (at any time) of the Pleasant View Soccer Fields in North Boulder is restricted to sanc4oned soccer and rugby clubs from around the state of Colorado The main reason given was that the department cannot provide the finest quality playmg fields for the soccer and rugby clubs from around the state if the generai public is aiso allowed access We are not talking about interrupting sanctioned games here, we are talkmg about simply walking/running across the facility after hours or dunng the off-season One proposal to enforce this restncUon is to fence off the perimeter of the faality and lock ali entrances No after-hours or off- season use permitted No walking, running, sledding, kite flying, pick-up games, etc allowed Th~s athletic facility was paid for ($4,300,000) and is maintained (approx~mately $190,OOOJyear) by the c~ty of Boulder taxpayers, yet now we are not allowed acces~ to the faality unless we ~oin a soccer/rugby club and pay their fees in addit~on to our taxes Not all families in Bouider can afford to place their chddren in sanct~oned soccer/rugby cluhs and many do not have the desire to place their children in such a competitive athletic environment Yet we and our chiidren would still Iike a close-by place to run and play dunng off hours These 30 acres of playing fields are within a few minutes walk of hundreds of households that helped pay for it Soon we may be reduced to gazing upon the fields through an 8-foot high cha~n-link fence If you would prefer not to see this public facility fenced and locked away from the general public (read taxpayer), please express your displeasure to the Boulder Parks and Recreation Department Advisory Board (names, addresses and teiephone numbers available at 413-7200) and the Boulder City Counctl, which ultimately oversees that department Enough feedback by the people paying for this faciiity may convince Parks and Recreation that funding for th~s and future facilities may be in ~eopardy if they proceed with such restnctions Tom Feiereisen Boulder Attachment F Doug Hawthorne - Response to e-mail of Jan 11, 2000 From: Chns Dropmslu To: "davehumphrey2@home com" GWIAe2 COBNet, "ma~lto EldndgeT@ci boulder co us" GWIAe2 COBNet, Co~on, ~'" Dan, Havhck, Spense, Lopez, Rich, Mock, Don, Morzel, Lisa, Pmnsatte, Franco~se, R~ggle, Gordon, Secnst, Ron, Toor, Will ~ Date: 1/12/2001 6 02 PM Subject: Response to e-mail of Jan t 1, 2000 CC: Brown, Dave, Hawthorne, Doug, Kotowsk~, Lmda, Olander, Ten i~~ary iz, zooi Mr Dand Humphrey 5636 Pwnsylvama Avrnue Boulder, Coloado Dear Mr Humphrey The Parks and Recreation Depanmrnt is m receipt of your rmad sent ~o ihe C~ty Managets office and C~ty Council concemmg a lettv ~o the ed~ror which appeared m the January 11, 2001 edmon of ihe Dady Camem from Tom Fe~ersen about Pleasant V~ew Soccer F~elds We would hke to respond to your e-med and Nanfy some pomts rtlated lo th~s ~ssue The Parks and Recreanon Depamnmt has managed and ma~ntamed [Aese fields for 5 years These speaalized sand-based athletic fields were funded pnmanly Gom the 1993 I S% sales tax that autl~onzed up to S4 m~Ilwn for athlehc fields, mcludmg softball and s«cer fields, ro allev~ate a shonage of socca fields ~denufied m the Parks and Recreanon Deperunent Master Plen In 1996, the City entered mto an a~eemrnt wrth tAe Unrversny of Colorado to construct one addmonal soccer field to eccommodate thev use The Umvetsity pa~d the C~ty over 5269,000 for ~his development Much attennon was grvrn ro[he quahty of soccer fields, safety concans, m~unes and polent~als for heary ~vses to sme an rnnre range of ages and ab~hnes emong the socca wmmm~ty dunng the plamm~g stages of ihe developmrnt of tM1~s complex The Parks and Recreauon Advisory Board approved fundmg for the consirucnon of the fields and approved the use lo be hmned to socca and rugby games only Pracnces are staged ~n other park areaz m open non-Cenced turf areas A sports turf consultmt recommended ihat the field use be hmrced to 30 hours per week, ~n order ro preserve the fields and ro mainta~n them m tAe most cost~ffecnve manner The Depanment has suffic~mt stafting and mam~rnance resources, and has ao ucellen[ hvf managemm[ program for [h~s fac~hty The h~gh ma~ntmance stendards Ihat are m przctlce have enabled tAe Depanmrnt ro mamtvn and manage tAe Ndwrthout the use of pesnades As a result, the Pleasant V~ew Soccer fields are considered one of the best soccer factLnes m lhe state Smce the openmg of t6ese fields m 1995, staffs who schedule and mamlam lhe Pleasant V ~ew fields have connnued to expenence vanous issues wrth drvetse groups usmg the facil~ty These ~ssues mclude ~ocreased vsndal~sm, wh~ch cost the Crcy over 515,000 last year, dogs rumm~g at large, mcreased rcash and htter and unauthonzed uses mcludmg horsebeck ndmg, firewodc Iaunchmg, cross country skung, runnmg, and sleddmg Dunng Ihe fall and wmttt, staff keeps the gates ro Ihe parkmg lot closed and locked untd 8 30 am ro ehmmate usas from entenng [6e facd~ry on frost mommgs Walkmg and playmg on turf wrth fros[ causes Iong trnn damage ro the turf Despue repeated attempts to educate socca coaches, people connnue ro amve pnor ro[he gates openmg, resulnng m trattic backups along 47ch Sacet This has lead to the pohce ~ssmng nckets to moronsts Mamtenaoce staffs are sprnd~og up ro 2 hours on wme days pmkmg up dog poop Gom ~he fields and are be~og placed m 16e posmon of havmg ~t to mtervrne to uttle confl~cts benveen venous authonzed and non-authonzed usecs and dogs Placmg them m th~s posmon ~s takmg away from tMert focus on the f mamtenance aspects of tAe facil~ry In addmon, ihe Humsne Soc~ety has been at the sne numcrous nmes and has cned dog owners who do mt have thwr pets on leashes ~~ T6e Departmrnt advert~sed and held a pubhc meenng on November 13, 20W ro discuss the ~ssues at£ectmg th~s sire and ro sohcrt pubhc feedback to potrnbal solutions Elevrn people anrnded the meetmg The feedback obtamed Rom tAe pubhc meenng w~ll be grvm ro the Parks and Recreation Adv~sory Board when the ~ssue ~s brought forward for discusswn and considaa[wn The Board hac recerved mformanon about 1he ~ssues at th~s fac~Lry but staf£has not brough[ forth any final recommrndations Stat£wdl be d~scussmg these ~ssues az the January 29, 2001 Parks and Recreanon Advisory Board meenng Dependmg on ~he outcome of these d~scuss~ons, a pubi~c heanng may be held m the spnng to cons~der fnai solunons Rmlly, the C~ty oP Bouider, as wrth many other mumcipahnes, prondes spec~al use atAletu facdmes that are hmned ~o daiymated, scheduled uses, wh~ch are fenced for secunty and safety reagons The Siaz~o and Maplaon Ballfields are both fenced and I~mned to league and organized piay only The Flanrons Golf Course ~s ano~hrr example of a fac~Lty that ~s fenced aod only open for golfmg use We mamtam our spec~al use facilmes at a h~gher level m that they can wnhstand Meavy use The users pay addrt~onal fees, whmh conmbute to fundmg t6e h~gher standard of mamtenance We apprec~are your feedback and ihoughts on th~s ~ssue and hope this grves you a better understandmg of the c~rcumstances and process S~ncerely, • Doug Hawthome Parks Supmntendent CMS Dropmski Parks and Recreanm Ovecmr »> "Dave Humphrey" <dave6umphrcy2@home cortv Ol/11/01 12 47PM »> Please refer to Letter to Camva below, dated today, if you d~d not already read rt [ consider ttus kmd of pohcy as abuse of managemrnt authonty I am certam the C~ty CAarta never gave Ne authonty to the C~ty to keep property, fuaded by do0ars budgeted for publ~c puryoses, from pubLc access You have your pnonaes 180 degrees off Has thss c~ty become so ~solated from rts mamstream crt~zens that rt v~ews itself as havmg some oNer rtuss~on m hfe~ Thank you ACCESS City should not hnu[ fields' use After attendmg a commumty meehng m November, I was d~smayeA to leam that the Boulder C~ty Parks and Recreahon Department has dec~ded that use r°pP~~ (a[ any nme) of the P~easant V~ew Soccer F~elds m Nonh Boulder ~s restncted to sanct~oned soccer and rugby clubs from around the state of ~`0"~ Colomdo 7'Ae mam reason grven was that the departmrnt cannot prov~de the finest quahty play~ng fields for the socca and tugby clubs from around the state ~£the generai pubhc is also ailowed access We are not fallung about mtertupMg sanchoned games here, we are [allung file://C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\GW} 00006.HTM 1 ~1 g~2~01 Page 2 of 2 about s~mply walkm~/runnmg across the fac~6ty aRer hours or dunng the ofi-season One proposal to enforce ih~s restnctwn ~s to frnce otT the penmeter of the fac~lity and lock all rnt~anca No after-hows or off-season use pemntted No walicmg, Nnnmg, sleddmg, lute flymg, pick-up gama, etc allowed Th~s athletm fac~hty was pa~d for (54,300,000) and ~s mamtamed (approx~mately S 190,000/year) by the city of Boulder taxpayers, yet now we are not allowed access [o the fac~hty unless we Jom a socctt/mgby club ' MR and pay [hea fees m addmon to our tanes No[ alI fam~hes m Boulder can afford [o place Neu ch~ldren m sanct~oned soccedrugby clubs and many do „ not have [he des~re to piace thev childrrn m such a competrtrve aNlenc rnvimnmrnt Yet we and our children would shll hke a close-by place to run and piay dunng off hours Thwe 30 acres of play~ng fields are wrth~n a few mmutes walk of hundreds of households Na[ helped pay for rt Soon we may be reduced [o gaz~ng upon the fields Uvrough an 8-foo[ h~gfi cham-Lnk frnce If you would prefer no[ [o see It~us publw facihty fenced and locked away from [he general pubhc (read taxpayer), please express your d~spleasure [o the Boulder Parks and Recreation Departmrnt Adv~sory Board (names, addresses and telephone numbers avadable at 413-7200) and [he Boulder C~ty Councd, whwh ult~mately oversees that departmrnt Enough feedback by the people paymg for thrs fac~LTy may commce Parks and Recreahon that fundmg for [h~s and future facilrtes may be ~n ~eopardy ~f they proceed w~th such restncnons Tom Fe~ere~sen Dave Humphrey Dav~d Humphrey 5636 Peonsylvama Avenue Boulder, CO 80303 (303) 499-7401 mailto davehumphrey2rhome com i"~ i~ file.//C \WINDOWS\TEMP\GW}00006.HTM 1/18/2001 z , ~ - Page 1 of 2 Doug Hawthorne - RE: Response to e-mail of Jan 11, 2000 From: "Dave Humphrey" <davehumphrey2@home.com> ~-~ To: "'Chns Dropinski"' <dropinsk~c@ci.boulder.co.us>, "'Dan Corson'" <CorsonD@ci.boulder.co.us>, "'Spense Haviick'" <HavlickS@ci.boulder.co.us>, "'Rich ``r Lopez"' <LopezR@a.boulder.co.us>, <madto:EldndgeT@ci.boulder.co us>, "'Don Mock'" <MockD@ci.boulder.co.us>, "'Lisa Morzel"' <Mo2eIL@ci.boulder co.us>, "'Francoise Poinsatte"' <PoinsatteF@ci.boulder.co us>, "'Gordon Riggle'" <RiggleG@ci.boulder.co.us>, "'Ron SecrisY" <SecristR@ci.boulder co.us>, "'Will Toor"' <ToorW@ci.boulder co.us> Date: 1/13/2001 12:59 AM Subject: RE: Response to e-mail of Jan 11, 2000 CC: "'Dave Brown"' <BrownDav@a.bouider co.us>, "'Doug Hawthome"' <HawthomeD@ci.boulder co us>, "'Lmda Kotowski'" <KotowskiL@a.boulder co.us>, "'Teri Olander"' <OlanderT@ci boulder co.us> Thank you for a timely reply Your letter drives home my point Now I see that the problem with the atys pnonhes is even worse than I thought I would like to pull the string on~rour answers, which contain substantrve information, but not much that responds to the actual points in my email Where is the authority, within the City Charter, to limit use of that field to out-of-town soccer players and restrict it from Boulder Cd¢ens~ i would hke a chapterlverse cdation, if possible Or even denved pohcy that is based in the Charter, if it exists Where is the cost ~ustification for such a venture as a near professional soccer field~ »In 1996, the City entered into an agreement wrth the Umversity of Colorado to construct one addihonal soccer field to accommodate theu use. The Unrversity paid the City over $269,000 for this development...A sports tutf consultant recommended that the field use be lunited to 30 hours per week... Since you bring it up, How much income is derived, per person using the field, and per year over all~ And how does that compare with income from the golf course on the same basis~ Since a golf course is used by golfers at any daylit hour of any day, how much sense would it make to allow other people onto the course~ Since the soccer field is highly ,~r., specialized, and it only permits a max of 30 hours use per week, how sensible a decision was it to even buiid the thing m the first place~ ~ Are you aware that there are not enough small fields for residents in general~ Why did this high class soccer field get pnonty over that~ »the City entered into an agreement with the Unrversity of Colorado to construct one addiuonal soccer field to accommodate their use. The University paid the City over $269,000 for this development. How much did the soccer faality cost and to maintain annually~ Tom Feison's editorial letter stated the cost of the soccer field exceeded $4M Is that a fact~ And does it cost $190K per year to maintain it~ How much of those monies are spent out of our diminishing budget~ Why is a 200k annual cost ~ustified for one soccer field that gets only 30 hours use per month (about 250-300 hours max per year translates to around $800 per hour)~ »The Pazks and Recreahon Advisory Boazd approved fundmg for the construchon of the fields and approved the use to be lumted to soccer and rugby games oniy I know this is beyond the scope of this discussion, but I submit that the Parks Board does not speak for the residents at large It was an artifice created by City Council somewhere in time to extend its own span of control In my opinion, the Board gets crosswise with the people as frequently as it acts in behalf of the people There are many parochial interests, materialized by having voice over our tax dollars, advanced by board members Moreover, they are a guidance group When they propose things that are not good sense, don't you have an obligation to let the City Manager know, so she can take the matter to the City Council~ »The high mazntenance standazds that are m pracrice have enabled the Department to mazntam and manage the turf without the use of pesricides And yet you put pesticides on our aty parks Why the discriminahon~ »Smce the opemng of these fields m 1995, staffs who schedule and mamtam the Pleasant View fields have contmued to experience vanous issues w~th diverse groups usmg the facility. These issues mclude ~. increased vandalism, which cost the City over $15,000 last year, dogs runnmg at lazge, mcreased h~ash and ~, litter and unauthonzed uses mciudmg horseback ndmg, firework launchmg, cross country skiing, running, and sledding Dunng the fall and wmter, staff keeps the gates to the parkmg lot closed and locked untxl 830 am to ehmmate users from entenng the facihty on frost mommgs. Walkmg and playmg on turf wrth file://C \WINDOWS\TEMP\GW}00006 HTM 1/16/2001 3. Page 2 of'2 frost causes long term damage to the turf Despite repeated attempts to educate soccer coaches, people continue to arrive prior to the gates opening, resulting in traffic backups along 47th Street. This has lead to the police issuing hckets to motonsts. Maintenance staffs aze spendmg up to 2 hours on some days picking up dog poop from the fields and are being placed in the posihon of having to mtervene to settle conflicts between vanous authorized and non-authonzed users and dogs. Placmg them m this position ts takmg awas-~ from their focus on the maintenance aspects of the facility. In addihon, the Humane Society has been at tt srte numerous times and has cited dog owners who do not have theu pets on leashes So what~ These problems are true of our parks in general~ Yet where is the big concern over them~ Should we lock up all our parks so lawbreakers won't have access~ »Maintenance staffs aze spending up to 2 hours on some days picking up dog poop from the fields...having to intervene to settle conflicts between various authonzed and non-authonzed users and dogs . So, you are paying to pick up poop for non-citizen soccer players, yet you will not do anything to keep little kids safe from the abundant poopulation of our pocket parks~ What is that all about~ Again, where are the citys priorities~ »As a result, the Pleasant Vtew Soccer fields aze considered one of the best soccer facilines m the state That provides the punch line for my argument So What~ The atizens of Boulder could care less about having the best soccer field in the state More wrong prionties on the part of Parks and Rec Whde you spend, say, two mdlion in a decade for this field, what is the aty going without~ Whatever happened to ordinary soccer fields at high schools~ How did I grow up without one of these high-tech, high-tax soccer fields, and not feel a bit of loss over it~ »The Department adverhsed and held a publtc meetmg on November 13, 2000 to discuss the tssues affecting this site and to sohcrt pubhc feedback to potential solutions. Eleven people attended the meehng I told you and the City Counal over and over there is little value in these so-called public meetings in a town of 100,000 You don't even make sure the speakers are citizens You don't gain statistical value You get opinions across the map that allow you to make whatever decisions you wanted to make anyway, then say it was the will of the people Parks, espec~ally, is infamous for that I read about it in the paper quite regularly Qualified survey questionnaires are much more valuable »Finally, the City of Boulder, as wrth many other mumcipalihes, provides special use athleuc facilities that are ...fenced for secunry and safety reasons. The Stazio and Mapleton Ballfields aze both fenced and ~ lunited to league and orgazuzed play only ,,,,, So, do two wrongs make a nght~ My brother ~umped over a cliff, so I am ~ustified in doing the same~ I grew up being able to run around those same kinds of ball fields, and no one ever thought a thing about it Now you fence them up and lock out the kids Congratulations on your wonderful sense if c~vic purpose In closing, I feel your budget is too large It would take a healthy cut to bring you back to the roots of why we want a Parks department We do not need an extravagant soccer field Any soccer field will suffice And people should be allowed to walk it othenvise The lawbreakers should be heavily fined, and maybe taxed (like a$25 annual dog tax to ctean up poop in the c~ty) ~n keeping wdh the cost of enforcement and repairs Thank you ac~ain I will probably go visit City Councd one Tuesday night to talk about bloated budgets in a retreating income situation ,""e file•//C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\GW}00006 HTM ~ 1/16/2001 iicy, ~.ic~.n awo vu~: ra~e 1 oi t Attachment G ~. , . ~ N ~ Hey, check this out! [ Follow Uos ][ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORiJM ][ FA ] Posted by Boulder Coach on January 11, 19101 at I5:14:06: One thing both Boulder clubs have in common is the GREAT fields at Pieasant View. Hopefully everyone can agee with that! There is an letter to the editor of the Daily Camera, today, Jan.10, this person seems to feel that it is unfiir that the fields are CLOSED during the off season. He is worried about a fence going up wluch would make it unaccessable during the off season. My point in all this is the fields are agruably the best in the state. The only way they will stay that way is for the fields to be CLOSED during the off season. If you open them up durmg the off season you are just askmg for them to be abused. ""' Anyone else have an op'urion on this..... I have set up a link to the article. Follow Ups: . Ever wonder what Interested Photographer 1/12/101 (2) o Oops That didn't work Ho_pefiilly, it does this Ume Interested Photographer 1/12/101 (1) ^ Okay One last time~ Interested Photographer 1/12/101 (Q) • Pleasant View use or not~ Long time Boulder coach/player 1/12/101 (0) . Re Hey. check this out~ soccerpsycho 1/11/101(1) o Re Been there The A-C'L 1/I2/101 (O) . Re Hey, check this out~ Boulder guy and taapayer (lots of'em)1/11/101(1) o Poor Gttle rich Guv~ Have telep6one book in hand 11121101 (0) . A Gttle tustorv Frank Tower 1/Il/101 (0) . LeYs try the link again~ Boulder Coach 1/11/101 (6) o Re Let's try the link again~ I Agree With The Letter Writer 1/11/101(5) P,.. ^ Re Let's try the link again~ Boulder taxpayerl~2 1/12/101 (0) ` ^ Re Let's try the link aga~n~ for its protection, bvandals and 25 grand a year ""y mean a fence, it would have access not for him as his playground! np 1/11/101 http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreation/soccer/wwwboazd/messages/54146.htm 1/16/Ol e: . . • ~;~,~N Re: Let's try the link again! --~ [ Foilow Uos ][ Post Followuu ]( Colorado Soccer Net FORiJM ][ FA~ ] Posted by Boulder taxpayerl#2 on January 12, 19101 at 13:08:55: In Reply to Re Let's try the Gnk aQam~ posted by I Agree wth The Letter Writer on Januazy 1 I, 19101 at 15:48~47 The fields aze indeed paid for by taxpayers. I think there was a bond issue and the funds came from pazt of a dedicated sales tax That same sales tax probably funded softball ffetds, impmve~irts at the golf course, and the acquisition of the new park in no Boulder as well as Valmo~ Pazk. Using this guy's reasoning, as a taxpayer, I believe that my children should be able to go to the new park sites and that I and they should be able to hit golfl~alls into the prarie dog preserve and thea chase the critters because the ball disappears i~o a burrow. I am planning to take my kids sledding on the greens at the golf course and I am certainly going to insist tl~at it is my right to jog all over the infie]ds at the softball fields. If I am issued a citation by the police for trespass andlor vandalism, I plan to use this guy for a reference or to "get-out-of-ja~-free". Ths Pleasant View fields are athletic facilities, not a city park. Athietic ficilities are fenced, not only in Boulder, but elsewhere. This guy needs to have Ivs head examined, but, far more than that, the soccer community need to be sure that the PRAB isn't unduly iafluenced by self-serving statements that come &om neighbors of the soccer fields. All of us who buy anything in Boulder have a stake in the fields. All of us who live in Boulder are taxed so that we can have the "good life" For me, that means having a well maintained soccer only athletic fac~7ity. Follow LFps: Post a Followup Name ~ E-Mail- ~ Svb~ect: Re: LeYs try the Imk agam! ' Comments : http://bcn.boulder.co.uslrecreation/soccerlwwwboard/messages/54183.htm 1/16lO1 ~ ~r ''~~ ~ ~, xe: a..ei s cry zne unx agam: Yage 1 oi "l ~. ; . ' N ~ Re: Let's try the link again! [ Follow Uos j[ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORUM ][ FA~ ] Posted by Boulder taxpayer#2 on January 12, 191 Q I at 13:08:55: In Reply to. Re Let's try the link again~ posted by I Agree ~th The Letter Writer on January 1 l, 19101 at 15 48.47 The fields are indeed paid for by taxpayers. I thinlc there was a bond issue and the funds came from part of a dedicated saies tax. Tbat same sales tax probably funded softball fields, improveaxrns at the goff course, arni the acquisition of the new park in no Boulder as well as Va7mo~ Park. Using this guy's reasoning, as a taxpayer, I believe that my children should be able to go to the new park si#es and that I and they shouid be able to hit golft>alls into the grarie dog preserve and then chase the critters because the baIl disappears 'vrto a burrow. I am planning to take my ]dds sledding on the greens at the golf course and I am certainty going to insist that it is my right to jog all over the infields at the softball fields. If I am issued a citation by the police for trespass and/or vandalism, I plan to use .^`""' this guy for a reference or to "get-out-of-jait-free" 1'hs Pleasani View fields aze athletic facilities, not ~~... a city park. Atlileric facilities are fenced, not only in Boulder, but elsewhere. This guy needs to have his head examined, but, far more than that, the soccer community need to be sure that the PRAB isn't unduly influenced by self-serving statements that come from neighbors of the soccet fields. All of us who buy anything in Bouider have a stake in the fields. All of us who live in Boulder are taxed so that we can have the "good life" For me, tl~at means having a well maintained soccer onfy attiletic facility. Follow Ups: Post a Followup ~ Name ~ E-Mail ` Subject~ Re• LeYs try the link again! ' ,,,.,,, Comments : .r. http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreation/soccer/wwwbosrd/messages/54183.htac 1l16lOl 3 ~ ~ ^~ ~ ~ ~ A little history [ Follow Uos ][ Post Followun j[ Colorado Soccer Net FORUM ][ F~ ] Posted by Franlc Tower on January 11, 19101 at 2039:02: In Reply to Hey, check tlus out~ posted by Boulder Coach on January 11, 19101 ai 15 14 06 The Boulder soccer community worked very hard to get the Pleasant View fields buiit swapping the old Roper fields for the Pleasant View space. Where the city wanted to just plunk down dirt and grass, the community pushed hard to get professional fields rather than the hard sod this jogger will Snd on other community azeas. There was an agreement among the soccer groups that the fields would onty be used for games because of the high maintenance costs. After all, this is a speciai grass that grows up through 6 inches of sand. If you have a bare spot, you just can't put down sod, you must fence it offand wait a couple of months! ~ Unfortimately, one of the Boulder organizaYions broke the agreement and used the fields for daily practice. The result was almost a totai trashing of the fields and an enormous cost to the city. The city ` quite wisely put restrictions on the fieid use wluch aze necessary because it becaube obvious that people were not able to police themselves. The author makes the argument that the facility was buiit with tax money, he is a tax payer, therefore the field belongs to him and he should be able to do what ever he waats, any time he wants. Pleasant View is a special use facility like so many others in the city. We don't practice on the golf course, we dont ride dirt bikes on the infield of the base ball comple~c, and we donR cbip golf balls in the basket ball courts. These are all tsx paid facilities. Follow Ups: Post a Followup Name- ~ http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreation/soccer/wwwboazd/messages/54162.htm 1/16/O1 a.., y roor unie ncn ~uy: ragc i ui c ,~ , . ~ N ~ Poor little rich Guy! [ Follow Uns )[ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORIJM ][ FA~ ] Posted by Have telephone book in hand on January 12, 19101 at 05:18:46: In Reply to Re Hey, check this out~ posted by Boulder guy and taacpayer (lots of'em) on January 1 l, 19101 at 21-32:54 Mr. Feiereisen lives immediately North of Pleasant View in a very expensive home. It's easy to see why he can't afford to let his children play soccer or to pay fees for a driving range. Follow Ups: ~ `~' ..r Post a Followup Name ~ E-Mail Subject Re: Poor little nch Guy! ~ Comments Ophonal Luilc URL ~ ` ..~.. Link Title t http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreation/soccer/wwwboard/messages/54165.htm 1/16/Ol 5 " xe: ney, cnecx w~s ut! rage i oi ~ • • -~, ~;~,~N ~~ Re: Hey, check this outi --- ----~ [ Follow Uos ][ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORiJM ][ FA4 ] - --~ Posted by Boulder guy and taxpayer (lots of'em) on January 11, 19101 at 21 •32:54: In Reply to Hey, check this out~ posted by Boulder Coach on January 11, 19101 at 15 14.06 The person who wrote the letter appeazs to be a Palo Pazk resident. The neighbors have complained when we discussed lighting the main field, even with the new lights they Llcely couldn't see. They have complained about the security motion activated lights installed on the restrooms to preveirt the vandalism. The lights aze at least a quarter mile from the nearest house, but even though they lilcely can'r see them, they KNOW the lights aze there. They have jogged on the fields in the frost leaving footprints for montbs afterwazd. They run their dogs there, practice golf there, even torched a couch on one of the fields. These folks want to use a ficility for purposes other than those for which it was requested, approved, desi~ed and maintained The streets in Palo Pazk were DESIGNED for driving and pazking, but the neighbors have had sigvs put up prolu'biting taacpayers from using the publicly- paid-for streets for pazking, one of the purposes for wlrich they WERE designed_ In addition, the ~+r+, mainieaance costs of the fieids are almost emirely covered by user fees paid by phyers, in addition to n the ta~ces they also pay. Kids pay $30 per year EACH for the 10 games they get to play there. It s not a public multi-use facility and should nat be considered as such. Boulder has amny thousands of acres of open space for other purposes (also publicly funded and on which soccer is forbidden) and this gentleman has every right to use them for tvs purposes (providing he follows their use rules, of course). I pay a lot of taxes for these &cilities and I e~cpect the authorities to use my money wisely and to protect my investmeTrt. Follow Ups: . Poor little rich Guv~ Have telephone book in hand 1/12/101 (0) Post a Followup Name ~ E-Mail -*a Sub~ect Re• Hey, check this out! ~ http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreahon/soccer/wwwboazd/u~essages/54163.htm 1/16/01 ~ xe: neen mere... ragc i oi a ~ ~ • N ~ Re: Been there... [ Follow Uos ][ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORUM ][ F~ ] Posted by The A-CL on January 12, 19101 at 09:16:53: In Reply to Re- Hey, check tlvs out~ posted by soccerpsycho on January i l, 19101 at 23 17•20• We aze having the exact same problem in our city. Where I'm &om American Footbatl is king. Girls softball is also big. The city is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for football fields and they just built a beutifiil baseball/softball complex on the east side of town. When I and a fiew others approached the city and P&R Dept. of same they said "well we liad no idea you needed fields and/or practice faci7ities." Another coach from our club got an internslilp on the P&R $oazd, he was actually pulled aside by the "good'ol boy's" and told "chill-out on the soccer requesYs." Now, after alot of negotiating with the city, we will have a 6 field practice facility AND a state-of-the-art soccer complex that will be ready far the Fall 2002 season. You're absolutely right....the squeaky wheel gets the grease. ~ ~- Follow Ups: Post a Followup Name E-Mail. , ~ Subject: Re• Been there ( Commems ~^ ~ http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreation/soccer/wwwboard/messagesl54173.htm 1/16/01 7 + • N -~ . Pleasant View use...or not? [ Follow Uus ][ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORUM ][ FA~ ] Posted by Long time Boulder coach/player on 7anuary 12, 19101 at 15:09:49: In Reply to Hev, check ttus out~ posted by Boulder Coach on January 11, 19101 at 15 14 06 If I remember correctly, one of the selling points to the Boulder Pazks and recreation to put in sand based fields was that the fields would be more durable and would be able to handle more use than a traditional sod field. To this day I feel that the city is bemg faz to protective of the complex Of course I don't want to see the fields get destroyed, but T do feel that they could handle more use than they do now. Back to the tax paying issue... many soccer players, parents, coaches, m~n;ar~rors and supporters raised a lot of moaey to add to the city money to build these fields. The complex is designed for soccer and rugby. Why do joggers, ..r~ walkers, kite flyers etc. need to use this particular piece of grass? Boulder has many other places made ~ just for those purposes. Follow Ups: Post a Followup Name. f E-Mail: ~ Subject Re: Pleasant View use ..or not~ ~ Comments : ~ http:!/bcn.boulder co.us/recrearion/soccer/wwwboazd/messages/54188.htm 1/16/01 ~ xe: i.ec 5 cry me unx agtun: ray,c i ui ~ ~ '- • N ~ Re: Let's try the link again! - - --~ [ Follow Uns ][ Post Followun ][ Colorado Soccer Net FORUM ][ F~ ] Posted by The A-CL on January 11, 19101 at 16:14:01: In Reply to Re Let's try the link a~ posted by I Agree With The Letter Writer on January 11, 19101 at 15•48•4'7. I, as a taxpayer, am paying for the American Airlines Center for the Stars and Mavericks to use. How many times a year do you thinlc the}}rll let me use IT for a pick-up gav~? Offseason or not. Follow Ups: . Hey. no Texans allowed. . hee hee (nnl Just Kidding!! 1/11/101 (i) e,,,,, o Native Texan at that~ : 1 The A-CL 1/11/101 (0) Post a Followup Name E-Mail. Subject: Re: LeYs try the link again! Comments ' ~ '' ~ Optional Link URL http://bcn.boulder.co.us/recreadon/soccer/wwwboazd/messages/541 SO.htm 1/16/O 1 ~ ~f ~ DR I VE F- N I PL ER w ~ ' PALO Pq~t-( ~ o,p ) m T,S, i ~OO< ~ e x ~ ~ N H U l ~ CT CT JAY RD ~ REDWOOD p~ PA 0 P RK OR M 8 8C a E F ~ G H ~ OUINCE K 0 P ~ D a ~ ¢ w M N ] w m P~OSP G'( F- v Ro ~ w v N ~P PL V U~~N~ p c o c~.~ m ~~R ~ a~Q C P~ a p ~ 1.2 aC m PA PARK EAST S.9 ac = a U M W OUY~¢~~U m ~ UU~UQ ~ P a z a w ~ ~ x c~ o a KWY NEBR NOGALES Q ~ a o~ ~ CT 4 = • PALO PARK SOUTH 1.3 ac LINK~ ISLAND ~I~ KALMIA AVE J Q Y Mt.V~ex 2~em. Cemetery DIAGONAI - -~ $ 2 A- ^ B- d. C- D- E- Z F- G- H- I- ~ Four Mde Creek Sub J- NASSAU PL K- KINGSTOWN PL L- SCARSDALE PL M- ST JOHNS AV N- SAVANNAH CT 0- NEW HAVEN CT P- ST PETERSBURG CT Q- MONTCLAIRE LN R- OLD WESTBURY CT S- S HAMPTON CR