Minutes - Arts Commission - 02/21/2001
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Approved 3/21/01
Boulder Arts Commission
February 21, 2001
Boulder Creek Meeting Room
Members Present Also Present:
Don Berlin Donna Gartenmann
Erich Hill Tina Walker
Jude Landsman Joan Bell
Alan Rudy Richard Bell
Emily Wadhams Belinda Haaland
Nancy Geyer
Katy MacDiarmid
Timothy Reed
Gail Shimmin
Catherine Underhill
Tara Williams
The meeting was called to order at 5:45 p.m.
Information Items:
Gartenmann updated the Commission on the upcoming Women of the West project. The
i Boulder Country Trail of Women will begin at a reception March 21 in the Library's Canyon
Gallery. Because of Gartenmann's involvement, the BAC will be considered a co-sponsor.
Cultural Masterplan Update: Berlin and Gartenmann will meet with Rita Kotter and Dick Devin
to begin discussions for the update of the arts master plan. The Arts and Humanities Assembly
of Boulder took the lead on the original master plan. The initial meeting for the update will
address the level of involvement of AHAB.
Boulder View of Art: Municipal Channel 8 received numerous awards for Boulder View of Art
funded by the BAC and the Convention and Visitors Bureau.
Guild Theater
Landsman: Let's start. Let me first say that we're happy to meet with you, happy to
communicate with you. This meeting is informational. That we are aware of and value your
contribution to the theater community in Boulder. One person speaks. We have some questions
about how things are going at the Guild with information that Joan gave us and her subsequent
resignation. Some people were notified that the Guild had voted to dissolve. We have questions
concerning the money that City Council has given us to oversee. And we are the voice of City
Council. They ask for our recommendations. That is our charge. We are responsible for the tax
money collected for the arts. And considering that, things change for us. Things change for the
• Guild. And, I think that it is at least appropriate that we re-examine how things are being utilized
for our goals which is to enhance and support theater for the entire Boulder community. That is
our goal and I know that that is part of your goal, too. There will be a time limit because we only
have an hour so that we can respond.
R. Bell: I have given you a long document that addresses most of our concerns and our position.
What was not included in the packet was financial information. I have since gotten a bank
statement. We have a loan with Vectra bank which is $12,392.00 outstanding. More than that
with interest. We are in default of that loan technically. Yes, we are in default of that loan now.
They could foreclose on us. They're supportive of us and I don't think they would want to but
according to the terms of the loan the loss of the $20,000 line item puts us officially in default.
Joan signed that note which means that should we default, Jo and I pay it. Obviously we can't let
that happen and we can't. Even if we didn't, the other option would be that the bank would
foreclose, that is take all the rent money until the loan was paid off. That is the collateral.
The rent we charge the theater companies is used as collateral until it is paid off. So, with the
loss of that $20,000, we can't default. We hope to start again sometime. And they're clearly not
going to start a theater without the ability to borrow money. We endanger the whole arts
community with the development Vectra Bank loan. Without the money what I'm going to have
to do is have to pay off the loan. We can do that. We have enough money to right now pay it
off. That leaves us $3405.00 in the bank. I've run the numbers. With all the money that is
coming into us from rent that is already contracted and the rent we're going to take out, ignoring
other expenses, ignoring telephone, maintenance, that kind of thing. Ignoring whatever income
may come, we will default on our rent in May. If we were able to rent half the remaining time at
$800 a week, we would default in May. Only $626 in the hole instead of $2226. If we did not
i pay off the loan, then running the numbers, with not only rent to the Dairy but also payments on
the loan, we would be able to go until August. Go bankrupt. The Guild and Upstart Crow need
bank credit because we will start up a theater in some kind of warehouse(?). We will take
advantage of all the time we could stay at the Dairy obviously. We will hope to get a reversal
decision and do fundraising. That's not the worse case scenario. That's inevitability. That's not
the worse that will happen. That is what will happen. The best case scenario that I can make is
that we.. I can distribute those figures if you would like to see them.
Landsman: I think the rest of the Commission can, help me out on this, I understand you
sharing your financial situation. I think that just as it became clear to SCFD and as Joan made
clear to us, that the financial liability of the Guild as it stands is problematic. The specifics of
that are really not anything the commission can do about. The Commission has responsibility
for $20,000 in space money towards supporting the theater community. That's what our charge
is. We have some issues with how that money is being distributed. We've had some issues come
up in the past when we've come to you with questions of accountability and it's been difficult to
respond to those.
R. Bell: Can you give some examples of those?
Landsman: We were talking about getting statistics, when we were asking about rentals, how it
is that you're renting space and that there is absolutely no paperwork, that there is no
documentation that we are able to see how it is happening and what the agreements are, are you
having contracts and that there is a problem with the Guild being a volunteer organization and
taking care of everything that you need to do. That's what I'm talking about in terms of our
problems with getting any kind of accountability from you about our questions as to the funding
R. Bell: That was the reason we asked for the meeting. That was the reason we also asked for
minutes of the November time. We offered our time and we got no response. We had to do
something. You're quite right. We knew the problems were there. We acted to correct them.
We acted in the only way we knew how. We would have acted on your advice, but you wouldn't
give us any. So we had no choice. We did contact the Commission and ask for meetings. The
best we got was one hour tonight and we would still like to ask but were not able to get any
answers. So we did what responsible people do. We solved the problems. We thought we
solved them admirably. The entire theater community, the reason we solicited these few letters,
is to let you know that by and large, thinks we were smart and did it right.
We have the volunteer base, we have the money. We can hire the people we need to. We can do
everything you wanted. And we thought what we were doing was responding to the very
concerns that had been expressed. If we misunderstood, since we did request information and
time it was incumbent upon you to provide us with that. Absent that knowledge, absent any
communication, we had to act, we did the best thing we could. We certainly knew that the line
item was not some perpetual endowment. But when it was published in the city budget for the
year, in a public place, we thought the year had already started at least was safe.
Rudy: I'm sorry. What was it that you asked for that you didn't get?
R. Bell: $20,000.
Rudy: No, no. You were talking about...
R. Bell: We were talking about a meeting with you. Emily, I think it was, said, look, the Guild
is going to change and you might as well get used to it. And when Joan said there were things she
couldn't do, she said, well maybe somebody else will do them. We took that, perhaps wrongly,
as a pretty clear direction that Joan should resign and that something needed to be done, so we
said, let's talk about it. We'll do what you want. I think it was Emily that said, at the next
meeting, we're not having a December meeting, that's why I wanted the minutes, because I'm
saying this from memory, and you can contradict what I say because you may have a different
memory, and we have no documentation, but I remember fairly clearly, this I remember quite
clearly because I was deeply disappointed, she said we're not having a December meeting, the
January meeting is all devoted to grants, February meeting is reports, we can't get to you until
March. We believed that.
Gartenmann: We did too, at the time, if I could just jump in for a minute. The reason that I
couldn't send out the minutes is that the Commission still hasn't approved them. They're in the
packet tonight and they are on the agenda to approve but they aren't official minutes until they
are approved. I checked and that was correct on my part. In January, we didn't approve minutes,
. because there was nothing but grants on the agenda. We will be getting to approving the minutes
later this evening.
R. Bell: You see, that gives us no information.
Rudy: Do you want to stop the meeting and approve them now so they might have those
minutes?
Landsman: Well, I think we can continue. I don't think the minutes will you enlighten you.
The issue we wanted to address has to do with the fact that there are two resident organizations at
the Guild right now, BCT and the Upstart Crow. You have a season of four shows, you each have
four shows. There was a large amount of down time in the theater and by your own admission in
the letter you are saying the less that is going on in the theater, the less people are coming to
shows and attendance is down. From your point of view, as well as ours, that needs to be
addressed in terms of being able to rent that space out, have greater utilization. When that came
up, we had been told the Guild was an all volunteer organization, you don't realize how much
time it takes to book it, etc. etc. we can't do anything about that. So, we are getting messages of
you wanting information from us so we're giving information. The information we're getting
back is we're overwhelmed, we can't deal with that. Yet, we're funding, majorly subsidizing
what is two groups and a few others and a lot of down time. It doesn't appear that's the best use
of city tax dollars.
R. Bell: Well, whether its the best use of..
• Landsman: So we have to come up with a plan. We have to come up with a plan whether it's a
plan you like, or a plan you don't like so much. We have to come up with something that works
better than the last year or two at the Guild.
R. Bell: The problem at the Guild is very real, and I'll say it again, we thought we had solved it.
We did what we...
Landsman: Well
R. Bell: We asked the professional company that has been involved anyway...
Landsman: Upstart Crow?
R. Bell: We got the support of the theater community, everyone except the Arts Commission
congratulated us on that.
Landsman: Well...
R. Bell: That's true.
Landsman: I'm not saying that isn't true, I'm jumping ahead.
R. Bell: Absent your input as to what we should have done, we would have been irresponsible
not to have done something. We had to do something and came up with a solution that would
work. All that planning stopped dead on January 1 I when we got the calls. We are in a very bad
time right now. I am still booking the theater. I'm now sure on what authority. I cannot in
conscience tell people don't talk to me, call the Arts Commission. So I have been continuing
with it even though I'm not sure I have the authority to. But, if you have a better plan, we're
getting on to March. Two months are already over. If you have to wait for another meeting,
what plan do you possibly propose.
Landsman: To my knowledge, we have not received anything from Upstart Crow, or received
anything in your letter that details a plan. In your letter you are basically saying that we would
run things the same way. And won't everything be fine. We'll just be running it instead of the
Guild and not only will it be more efficient but it will be run in the same way. And, that's not
acceptable. The way it has been running has not been...
R. Bell: Name another organization in America that has built 5 theaters in this time, twenty
years. Has funded them, has fostered theater companies. If the same way is not very good, what
do you want? We are a successful organization, granted run by volunteers, but the Upstart Crow,
I'm sorry, the Guild Theater's history is the envy of community theater in America. We are not
failures. We are a stunning success that is envied by other communities. And your notion that
we are somehow failing and are irresponsible...
Landsman: I have not said irresponsible. I don't suggest that you are irresponsible. I'm saying
. that we have had trouble getting accountability for..
J. Bell: May I say something? I'm speaking for the Upstart Crow and as former president of the
Guild Theater, you have never asked us for contracts. You asked for demographics and that was
it.
R. Bell: Yeah, you never asked for contracts.
Landsman: I was asking for...
J. Bell: I'm sorry, at that meeting, there was nothing about contracts.
R. Bell: That's why I wanted the minutes.
Haaland: Let me introduce myself. I am Belinda Haaland, board president of the Boulder
Conservatory Theater. We, of course are involved in this process. I think I would like to ask the
Arts Council at this point, what do you see as a possible solution? In reading Richard's
document, I think that he has proposed some new ways of reaching out to the community and
advertising the theater and the space is ready to rent. I recall that being part of your epistle, if
you want to call it that. I am very interested to hear what you think is a viable solution and with
that information, perhaps we could respond to that concretely.
•
Rudy: This is a difficult time but it is also an opportunity. The Guild or a Guild like entity really
belongs to the community, not to any one or two groups. We have an obligation to City Council
and the people who pay taxes to see that this money is spent wisely, it's spent in way that the
people in the community want it spent. This group is a very narrow representation of the
performing theatrical community. What we have proposed is in very short order, that we have a
special meeting with the entire theatrical community showing up. Everybody has a piece in this
deal, not just the Bells and not just us. It's everybody in here. We would hope that we have a
meeting with 100 people and we tell them what we think might be appropriate but only tell them
so it might serve as a launching device. Not as a dictate. So that people who might, it seems to
me that you all, you being the greater community, need to respond to the crises. You need to
organize yourself, you need to form yourself into committees, maybe you need to put yourself
together in a way so you come forward to the Arts Commission with a plan and say, this is what
we think is a good idea. Now, it may be that after all of this you come back to us and say the
Upstart Crow running this is the best that can happen. In which case, we will listen to you and
consider that there is a now a consensus, there is now community that is behind the decision. I
think that whatever the entity is, is one that should be pretty well funded. There should be an
executive director. It should be a lot of things other than handing the keys to somebody to
perform. You may not agree with that. You may come back to us and say, hey, we don't want
any more than what we have. It works perfectly. It's the best we can have. And we'll consider
it.
Haaland: We actually haven't identified who all the theater companies are. (Unintelligible--
mentions Actor's Ensemble, Director's Theater,) who were producing and for whatever reason
are not anymore. We don't know who out there would like to produce and your meeting, as you
say, about 100 companies come together...
Rudy: I said 100 people
Haaland: That might help actually, a little bit more than we know already. Richard doesn't turn
anybody down unless there is a double booking situation, so he is catering to people who do
approach the Dairy at this point. This is the unknown
Landsman: To address something that might help you. Our alternative. We have discussed
some of them. One that has come up, you may be aware that there was an issue with the dance
community. Space for Dance, Dance Alliance did a wonderful job, had a tremendous history of
supporting and bringing in dance. We had no problems for years supporting them. The
organization finally became in a state that we could no longer support it. What we had to do,
which has worked out well, is to do a space subsidy through us, the same amount of money going
directly to the artists, directly to perform. Now in the case of the dance space subsidy, those
subsidies were to any dance company, not like a grant, not like you have to decide it like a grant
issue, more subsidy. You have confirmation that you have a show, you get the money. And the
money goes directly to the space. In the case of the dance situation, we made that available to
whatever space that they wanted to use. People performed wherever they want. In the situation
with the Dairy and the Guild theater, there is a possibility, since that space exists, of subsidizing
groups to perform in that space. So there are details for that to be worked out. There are issues
of the Guild's involvement, how the space is being run. That has to be addressed and worked
out. But there are ways where we could still support what you started, what you birthed at the
Guild. There are ways that can be worked with that $20,000 that could benefit whoever wants to
use the theater, whoever wanted to perform in that space. Which would ultimately be beneficial
because the space would be more fully utilized.
T. Reed: I'm Timothy Reed, a long time member of the Upstart Crow. I wanted to comment
about what you said. Certainly the only thing that the theater community in Boulder is interested
in is maintaining a performance space. We don't care how it happens. We don't care who gets
the money as long as that space is there. And yes, you're right. Eventually down the road, some
sort of granting where individual theater companies wind up getting part of the money that is
allocated by City Council to work on the event is fine, but that is not going to happen if there is
no theater there. If something isn't done short term in order to maintain those theaters there, if
we can't, the Guild can't pay the rent to the Dairy, and the Dairy can't fulfill its obligations, will
the theaters remain empty? No, the theaters will go away. In the long term, if the Dairy can't
cover its costs, they've got to do something. They cannot have those two spaces sitting empty,
being used by one or two companies. I have not been involved in all of the financial discussion,
but if some arrangement can be made to make sure that the bills get covered, that is I believe
what the entire arts community is looking for and whether the check gets written to the Upstart
Crow or whether the check gets written to the Dairy. Who cares? We want to maintain a
performance space.
Landsman: I think that there is an issue about who gets paid. We're saying we want to support
the theater and I'm not hearing that from Upstart Crow.
Rudy: You're confusing the issues. One item is maintaining the space and the other one is the
money to the Guild. Those aren't the same issues. We have an absolute commitment to the
theater community. We believe the $20,000 is money that should be spent among the theater
community. That is not an issue. Our issue is how to best to utilize it to the benefit of the
community. I think that the arts community, not just recognize producers, but maybe those who
used to be groups and would like to do it again, those who hope to someday be able to produce. I
think they have a stake in this discussion also. I feel that they're not sitting at the table tonight
and I want to hear from them. They're entitled to hear from us.
R. Bell: You've gotten letters from I think every theater company in Boulder. To answer that
question, you have heard from them. The other question, I agree that the important thing is to
keep the theater going. There is no way in any plan that I've yet heard by which any of that
money can go to the theater. If you give grants to theater companies, let me remind you, we have
letters of agreement to theater companies. They are already contracted at a certain rate. You can
give them enormously generous grants. They will not give it to us to pay the rent. Why should
they? You can give money to the Dairy, but we still owe $3600 a month and nothing in your
plan suggests how that bill is going to be paid.
Lansdman: Richard, wait a minute. If we give out $20,000 in space grants, that must be
performed at the Dairy space, that money will be taken out of the rent that you have to pay.
R. Bell: No. Wait a minute. You are now coming between Catherine and I and rewriting the
lease? How can you do that? We owe them $3600 a month. Where is the machinery for this?
Catherine may be enormously generous and say (M), we have a lease. We have contracts to
theater companies. You may be as generous as you wish to the Dairy, and I think you should be,
we still...
Landsman: If that space grant goes to you to go to the Dairy, then its your ethical business
decision as to whether you want to overcharge these people or not.
R. Bell: We can't overcharge them. We have contracts.
Rudy: We're discussing something that isn't on the table.
R. Bell: It is on the table.
Rudy: We really haven't had any discussions about how to deliver the money. We're not
prepared to ultimately we need to visit with the community. We've got letters from these
folks. I want to look them in the eye. I want to hear what they have to say. The bottom line is
that after you have responded to us collectively, we would like to work with you to develop a
plan that is acceptable to everybody. Nor are we going to give you a check for $20,000. We're
going to listen to what all of you have to say, we're going to work with you and come up with
something that is a collective community decision that everybody feels is best for you. We've
been talking about possibilities. But there are possibilities about what we're going to do.
Berlin: I just want to clarify something. The reason we started talking at the end of the grant
meeting in January is that Richard had called and said, asked me a few questions, do we have the
right to distribute and how about a special meeting. And at that time the question was raised
well, we kind of found how we distributed the money for the dance community really helped.
The only question was why can that major amount apply for the theater discipline as they're
using the space at the Dairy, that it goes to rent subsidy I think I speak for all
commissioners that we are all puzzled why there is such resistance, or what appears to be to us,
resistance to that.
Underhill: I think I can help clarify that one. I'm not sure there is resistance from all parties, but
there is a little bit of a different situation in the theater, at least in our building, than there was in
the dance community as a whole. The difference is that there is the umbrella organization of the
Guild that entered into a lease agreement and consequently has financial obligations in the realm
of $40,000/year for a specific space. The dance space, on the other hand, is not leased by a
particular organization for the entire year. Consequently, that financial responsibility is spread
across several organizations and in fact, the Dairy subsidizes that space because when it is not
operating, it's paid for on an hourly basis, and when it's empty it is not generating any revenue.
The dance space was structured differently intentionally than the theater space was. We have a
long term lease agreement with the Guild that includes a fairly significant financial obligation
from them and the common use areas. So, that is the difference between the two. And if there is
a way in somehow figuring out, I hear what you're saying in terms of the desire to have these
funds support the broader theater community, be as successful as possible and I understand that
the dance subsidy and how that works. There is such a difference in the way we're structured
that has caused some of the difficulties.
Berlin: Structured so differently that that matrix is not appropriate?
Underhill: I think it would really well if everybody, the theater folks, the Dairy and the people
who use the space, could be relatively assured that the space would be used most of the time.
Because the trigger for drawing on that subsidy, if I'm understanding the system correctly, would
be people who booked the space. And that would allow funds to become available to go to
support the space. But the difficulty arises for the Guild and their obligation to the Dairy and the
Dairy is important to their funds(??), if nothing triggers the distribution of those funds for a
period of time, six weeks, eight weeks, ten weeks, what have you, all of a sudden, we all have a
cash flow problem. So that's, I haven't figured out how we could get around that.
Although I understand the philosophical basis of what you're trying to do.
Landsman: Right.
R. Bell: We signed a lease. We have to come up with $3600 a month. We have a liability
insurance policy that we must make payments on, we have a bank loan. We have risk money
that goes out monthly and it must. We were able to sign a lease because we thought we had a
certain amount of money secured. No organization, no successor to the Guild, certainly not the
Upstart Crow, would be foolish enough to sign a lease with the Dairy knowing that it's only
income would be the chance of grants. It would have high times and low times. That
organization that you would like to see set up still, is the result We have to pay for empty
theaters. That is the point. We have to pay for them regularly. Whether we're occupied or not to
keep the theater income
Berlin: Do you see how it is difficult to justify to city council about dark time? Can you help us
justify that because that's really hard.
Haaland: We have a couple of issues here. Immediate- We at the Guild need to pay the rent to
the Dairy and the Arts Commission has concerns as you've expressed. And they need to be
addressed for the slightly longer term. How do we encompass the entire theater community and
use the Dairy effectively? We have to make a decision of what happens in March, April and May
with the understanding that we are working on a better plan together, as a group, as a community.
Rudy: Do I understand you correctly that you have sufficient funding to pay the rent through
March and pay off the bank loan?
R. Bell: Not March, through April.
Rudy: I think that gives us a little bit of opportunity. If the theater community can gather itself
together, we would schedule a special meeting to meet with you. I think this is an opportunity to
is work together and come up with a plan that is flexible. There are really two issues: The Dairy
wants to get the money. The other is the Guild has an obligation to pay the money. Those aren't
necessarily the same. Should the Guild default, should another party present itself as willing and
able to pay rent, the Dairy will take their money.
Underhill: We were developing our six disciplines, I want to be clear that it is our desire...
Berlin: Can you help define exactly what the Guild is right now? What we see in writing we
understand to be assets, liabilities and responsibilities are assumed by Upstart Crow, but the
Guild still exists as a 501(c)3 steering committee. That puzzles us as to what the Guild really
does at this point and how the Guild sees itself. Could you talk to the Commissioners about that
so they have a better understanding?
R. Bell: Not in all the detail you would like to see because we are in consultation with the
Lawyers for the Arts to see how exactly that should be done. I think the whole process would
have been finished by now and we would have a clear definition of this had it not been for your
last meeting. The Upstart Crow has not exacted this charge for very understandable reasons. The
Guild has given to the Upstart Crow, the Upstart Crow is willing to accept this but has not yet
done so because, well, I think you understand why. The relationship right now is not defined.
We are in between, someone has made an offer to pick it up. We can get to that definition, but
only if there is some sort of short term solution.
Berlin: Could you just address briefly that if the Guild has given the assets and responsibilities
and debts to the Upstart Crow, what's left of the Guild?
R. Bell: The Guild is everything it was except some of the tasks. It still has money, still has a
bank account, it's still a corporation, it is still a 501(c)3, still pays taxes. It applies for grants,
much the same people are doing some of the same work only the Upstart Crow would take on the
workload. The Guild would, you're asking legal questions I honestly can't answer. I don't know
if it would be the Upstart Crow doing business as the Guild Theater or the Guild Theater doing
business as the Upstart Crow or if it would be a merger, or it would be a partnership. I honestly
don't know.
Berlin: I didn't mean to ask the question because I'm not a legal mind. I wanted the
Commission to get the idea together of what the Guild sees itself as and should there be an
immediate relief, is there a level of competency being demonstrated that the Guild as a board
would have a plan to incorporate better use of the facilities.
What tasks will the Guild be doing to use the money
R. Bell: Well, the most important thing is scheduling for the public but getting people in there,
keeping up the space, doing the monthly of paying the Dairy. Things of that sort.
Landsman: It still appears from the information that we have that basically the two resident
organizations of the Guild would be taking up 50% of the scheduling?
R. Bell: Oh, no, never.
J. Bell: Where did you get that idea?
Landsman: That you would be performing, that...
R. Bell: The figures, the Upstart Crow
(Too many people talking at one time)
Landsman: The theater is empty, the down time is 30-35%..
R. Bell: No, it's, ok, yes.
J. Landsman: And the rest of the time is divided between several groups.
R. Bell: Yes
J. Bell: The dilemma is, because the Upstart Crow and the BCT are financially successful, that
somehow we are taking advantage of this money and as a matter of fact, fourteen companies used
that space last year.
Landsman: Yes, yes, that's true.
J. Bell: But you keep saying that the two resident companies need to be punished somehow
Landsman: No, not need to be punished. We're actively supporting that and actively supporting
the theaters and the work that you've done there. We, as the Commission, it has come to our
attention a lot through information you shared with us, Joan, that the Guild was not able to really
perform the job that you needed to do, it's a volunteer organization and that we have not seen a
plan for fundraising, we're not seeing a plan for reorganization. What we have seen is, ok, one of
the resident organizations is going to take over. Well, there are issues involved in whether that is
necessarily the best use of the money for the space and our goals.
J. Bell: First of all, the Upstart Crow is a viable theater company. You are absolutely right, the
Guild is not. That's why a viable company, one that has a volunteer base, who has the donor
support to raise $8000 in three months should be considered to take over the managerial... The
Upstart Crow does not care if you give us one penny of that $20,000. We want the theater space,
we want that money for the theater spaces at the Dairy.
Landsman: Then we're on the same page.
J.Bell: Sign a contract with us and say, Upstart Crow, you can't even get a bank account I
have got, the Vice President of Vectra Bank will set up a bank account between the City and the
Dairy. If you want to set up an intermediary thing that we never see the money. That is a
possibility. The Upstart Crow doesn't need to get that money. But we do want to know what
that money is going to for the theater. Where would the theater subsidy grant go to?
Landsman: Well, then, we're not that far apart. What we been saying in terms of the space
subsidy, what you just said to me, I thought it was very similar to what we're interested in doing
and Richard is saying to me and to the Commission that that's not possible because you have a
lease with the Dairy. So, I'm a little confused as to what you...
R. Bell: No, give the money to the Dairy to apply to the rent. That doesn't violate the lease.
There's no problem with that.
Gartenmann: That's what her original proposal was.
R. Bell: That's what my proposal was.
Gartenmann: I got lost.
Hill: I know this is an extremely complicated situation. And I know there are people that are
very worried about making financial commitments very quickly. That's understandable.
But, you have so well outlined in your document. What is the Guild? To provide space for
the theater community, in a general sense. What is involved, and you've had trouble over the
past few years because you've created some theaters. Well, you told us at the November meeting
yourselves, oh, jeez, that won't work. Remember how testy that meeting really was? Because we
i asked you for something that we were told to do. City Council said, we need V
Ok, you've got my point now. The idea is conceptually is to provide a Guild, a very generalized
organization that provides what you were able to do in the past. The solution is very simple. It is
more specific, and I understand what you've done because it seems like a simple thing to do, but
we have to look at the general concept only. We come up with money for the Dairy. That's the
basic idea for theater space for performing. But, what you've given to us and what you haven't
given to us are a lot of contradictions.
Rudy: This is a personal observation. If the Guild is not viable...
R. Bell: It wasn't.
Hill: A very specific scenario
Rudy: You said the Guild wasn't viable. And Joan resigned and what troubles me, and this is me
imposing my value judgement only after 16 years of your leadership, you're not viable.
Which would seem to say something to me about the quality of your leadership. I'm just--let me
continue. I may be wrong which is, I think all of us are interested in subjecting our concerns to
the vision and the desires of the community as a whole. If you all come together and say, hey,
you guys are wrong, they're doing a great job, it's never going to get better, and it can't be better
and the Guild will never be any more than it is today and we don't hope for it to be any more.
Ok. It just seems to us, now I'm speaking or my interpretation of my compatriots, seems to us
that there is a possibility to leverage the city's money into something better. The Guild could be
more than just a rent payer to the Dairy. In addition to a rent payer, create these performing
companies that are dropping by the wayside and are no longer on your list, might be resurrected
or others could come forward to take their place if they were encouraged and fostered by
something like the Guild, not necessarily the Guild, but a guild. So, I think there is something
broken and I think its an opportunity for the community to come together to fix it. If you join
yourselves in some sort of union that allows you to bring forth ideas that might stimulate us and
you and create some
T. Reed: I'm sorry, I see a fair amount of misunderstanding going on here between the various
points of view. Can I just ask four really short questions? And get answers.
Landsman: Yes
Reed: Does the Arts Commission want to maintain theater space?
Landsman: Yes.
Reed: Now, the next question there is, do you want an organization to do more than what has
been going on in the past, that is to promote the theater space that is there?
Rudy: We'd like that.
i Landsman: I think ideally...
Reed: It's a question of how important is it? Yes, there is some down time. How important...
Landsman: It's important for the theater spaces to be more fully utilized, more professionally
managed, at least a plan and some ability to implement that plan. I think its viable.
Reed: Then that part comes back to the fact that the Guild right now is not viable because it
consists of two theater companies when it used to consist of six or seven.
Landsman: No, that's not why we're saying it's not viable. That's a part of it, but the bigger part
is the business manager had to resign saying that it couldn't be run on a volunteer basis properly.
J. Bell: That's not why I resigned. I resigned because I couldn't run it the way you wanted it run.
Reed: So, the next question, and this is sort of a rhetorical question, is whether or not the Upstart
Crow with some other organization whether it be a resurrected Guild or another guild, need to
manage in a different way. I think what it all boils down to is what organizational structure
would satisfy you, because I haven't heard that. Because I think everybody who is in the theater
community, and I've said this before. Our only concern is let's do something to maintain the
performance space and we don't care how it happens. So, what organizational structure will
allow that to happen. And, yes this is an opportunity to fix things, but can you do it in two
months?
Rudy: We would like you all to come together and work with us in devising a mutually
acceptable consensus forum that makes everybody happy. It could be that that's the Upstart
Crow.
Reed: Ok, I will make a final statement. My guess, is that every single person in the theater
community would come to meetings every night of the week in order to make it happen in the
next two months. The question is whether or not the Arts Commission would move that fast
because there is a time constraint here. We would make that happen, but with the past lethargy
we've seen, I don't have great confidence.
Landsman: I hear as the chair of this meeting, that there are concerns about the immediate future
of those funds, of keeping you viable. And I think that is one thing that we will discuss and
move on with it and come up with some answers for you. I think that the issue, some of the
issues that we have in terms of how to make the space more fully utilized. We need to end in
five minutes. I just want you to know that we hear you, we're on the same side in terms of
wanting the space that the Guild has birthed and created at the Dairy. If anything, we want to
have more vitality, more life, more, a wider recognition in the community and an organization
that can promote it. The theater needs help. It needs to be brought up, it needs improvement. It
needs to be able to be staffed. It needs ultimately an organization that can run it professionally.
There is a Technical and Organizational assistance grant money available for the running of that
space. We are doing everything we can to support ethically and responsibly the money for the
• future, long term future of the Dairy and theater.
R. Bell: Yeah, I have no difficulty with these studies. I think they're fine. I want us to find
solutions. Our problem is not the long term success of the Guild theater or theater in Boulder.
Our problem is what to do before the Guild goes bankrupt and gets evicted from the Dairy. It
may. Now, I need to tell you in all candor, now I speak, well as the Guild and the Upstart Crow,
I want theater to continue and I will do everything in my power to see it continue. Short of
giving $12,000 to Vectra bank out of my checkbook. So, I will go to the bank tomorrow and pay
off that debt. I will go to City Council as soon as possible and try to get a reversal of your
decision because if we cannot get the money on an interim basis, pending all of these agreements,
pending these studies, if you give us that money to spend at least for this year, I think we can
show you by the end of the year how viable it can be. If we leave this meeting without an
assurance that we have funding, I would be irresponsible if I didn't do everything I can to secure
the future of theater so I will go to City Council. We will make a very strong political fight to get
this decision changed back and ask for more money, ask for a little more security. We will begin
looking for other theater space, we will do vigorous fundraising and we'll move our equipment
into a warehouse for future use. Remember that those theaters belong to the Guild, not the Dairy
and not the Arts Commission. Which means in May there will be two large empty rooms.
Nobody will be able to rent them. And if you expect that we will cooperate in our own
destruction, I will fight to the death to keep theater in Boulder.
Landsman: This is rather dramatic, but I fail to understand how we are asking you to cooperate
with your own destruction.
R. Bell: Well, I assume you are asking us to leave the equipment with the theater. No?
Underhill: I'm hearing you are interested in having a conversation with the theater community.
For myself, I'm not sure who that means and it would be really enlightening for everybody to
have, and I'm not even sure how we would gather them, probably you have a list or something.
Someone has a list. To try to get as many people (tape ends) to a meeting and have some sort of
round table discussion where we can examine some of the issues you guys have raised and reach
some sort of structure-a solution because I haven't heard anybody say let's kill theater in
Boulder. On the contrary, everybody here wants to see theater grow and be strong and everybody
here wants the space at the Dairy to continue to exist. It's the mechanism of how to make that
happen that seems to be eluding us. Perhaps if there was an opportunity to bring many more to
the table and get as many ideas as possible, maybe even a facilitate discussion of some sort,
would that be helpful? And be quick, quick would be good.
Rudy: Thank you.
Gartenmann: I need to say this. You said you were going to Council to ask for additional funds,
I just want the entire room to know that all city departments across the board are being asked to
reduce their budgets by 5% next year, $25,000 out of the arts budget. That's something I want
everybody to know.
R. Bell: We might not be successful but we will certainly try. We will certainly try to get this
decision reversed.
Gartenmann: Right, but that just triggered the fact that I needed everybody to know that we are
being asked to cut our budget by 5%.
Underhill: I would ask to give room for conversation, that you make no move in the very near
term and if possible, we try to bring together these voices before you do that because my feeling
is that moving with such haste, we will obliterate some of the possibilities along the way.
R. Bell: We didn't moved with haste yet. We asked for this meeting on January 11 and...
Underhill: Can we buy a month?
R. Bell: I don't think so. I don't think so.
J. Bell: What do we tell people who want to rent, $450 a week, or $1,000 a week.
R. Bell: Yeah, what do we tell people?
Underhill: Can you hold for a month?
R. Bell: No. No! If we had been frantic to hold this long, holding until tonight puts us in real
jeopardy. I thought we would have some decision tonight. And to put it off saying there would
be studies. I mean, the worse case scenario. We're done. We can't recover from this. If we
don't get some short term money very soon. We have to scramble. I can't go to city council in
March or April and say, how about some money. Sure. That takes months.
Rudy: Your rent is how much?
R. Bell: $41,000 a year.
J. Bell: $3600 a month.
Rudy: There are two issues, one is keeping the space secure and the other one has to do with the
Guild and I don't know if they are so entwined that they can be separated. You have to act
according to your own best interest and proceed to do your own as we do, as the Dairy does.
It would seem to me that you reduce, I'm not going to...
Landsman: Alan, since we have to finish, we have to go. I appreciate Catherine and all her
suggestions and I think there is a possibility of the Commission taking into account emergency
funding...
R. Bell: We can't be satisfied unless we take a with us.
• Landsman: Well, we'll need time to, we can't do it this second.
Rudy: Let him go.
Landsman: We can get back to you next week, probably, as to what emergency or what
measures we can take to keep you going and listen to your while we reach a mutual
decision...
R. Bell: We thought that was what this meeting was for. Forgive me for feeling that. I don't
believe it will happen. I'm sorry
Rudy: I think you have a right to feel that way because as far as I'm concerned, it's not going to
happen. If you feel you need to go. I think that my interest is in the long term, viability, strength,
excitement of the theater community. You have to do what you have to do but we have an
obligation to use our best efforts to work with you all. I'm thrilled that you approached the idea
of having the very hard and quickly. We're very interested in this. And should the exercise
come up with the scenario that ends of working with Upstart Crow, we will listen and work with
you.
Underhill: Maybe we even want to pick a day. Speed is kind of key and I hear you on that.
Obviously there are all kinds of ramifications down the road for everyone sitting here. It also
• seems that it is critical to get many voices to the table and that is something that you could be
instrumental in making happen.
• R. Bell: Did you read the letters of recommendation?
Landsman: Yes.
Gartenmann: Most of them came after the packets had been sent out so the Commission hadn't
read them.
Hill: We have to hold a public forum. As Alan said, we need to look people in the eye. Letters
of recommendation are one thing. Seeing someone in a public forum, speaking what's on their
mind is an entirely different matter. Let's not talk legalese here. We have to meet in a public
forum.
Rudy: We're in Boulder for God's sake.
Landsman: Well, we need to rap this up and end it. Can we deal with a date. I also want to
remind everyone that in thinking about restructuring, coming up with a viable plan to keep the
theaters going, we have a new grant category available for technical assistance for organizations
such as the Guild.
R. Bell: Do you think the Upstart Crow could apply?
Gartenmann: Any organization..
Landsman: Any organization can apply.
R. Bell: Yes, you turned us down for the last two grants we've applied for.
Landsman: Yes, but this is a different thing. What we're talking about is addressing the
absolute need that is not totally unique to what the Guild is facing as far as needing to have paid
staffing, people to run the theater efficiently. That's not unique to the Guild. It's a problem for
many organizations in Boulder as things have grown, as needs have changed, as roles have
changed, that we have to rise to the occasion. I appreciate your input.
Haaland: Is it possible to divide the $20,000 by twelve and give us two, the Dairy, the Guild,
whoever, two months of that money so we can pay the immediate bills.
Landsman: Yes, that is possible.
Haaland: With the understanding that we have to
Landsman: Yes, that's possible and we can vote on that after, at the end of the meeting.
. Haaland: Would that amenable, Richard, at this point? It's truly buying time.
Underhill: It would give you time to sort it out.
• (Everybody talks at once.)
Berlin: I would make a motion as such if we need to do that for the business that we...
Rudy: I second the motion
Berlin: My motion is this: That because we have heard an emergent need for funding, that we
grant three months worth, the first three months, January, February, March of a line item to the
Guild so that we may continue on this process of deciding the best utilization of those funds.
Rudy: I have a question.
Hill: You already seconded.
Berlin: Ok.
Gartenmann: Second first, then official discussion.
Rudy: My understanding is that you have money in the bank, enough money to pay rent through
March.
R. Bell: Well,
Rudy: Ok, so I'm a little bit confused about why the money I was willing to second is necessary
if they had their own money to carry them through March?
R. Bell: We're going to act before the money is gone.
Hill: You're asking for an ideological...
Underhill: It's a gesture of good will.
Berlin: It's true. It's a demonstration of the Commission's commitment and an understanding of
how important and vital theater space is at the Dairy Center for the Arts. That's what this is.
That is what my motion was meant to be.
Landsman: And it will give us time to see how we feel and what is necessary. Ok. Shall we
take a vote. All in favor?
Gartenmann: The vote was unanimous.
(All talking at the same time.)
•
Underhill: Maybe we can talk about how to get everyone in the theater community together.
• How to promote that.
(Everyone talking at the same time)
Wednesday at 5:30? How about next week? Two weeks to get everyone together? Tuesday the
6th? That's too close. Tuesday, the 13th. Catherine will be out town.
Berlin: How about Thursday, the 15th?
Underhill: I could do that. 6:00 at the Dairy. Do you want to do it in one of the theaters?
R. Bell: the 15th of March.
Landsman: Maybe you could figure out the space.
Underhill: And we'll work with Donna to get a list.
Gartenmann: Can you help us out too, with lists of people to invite to this. I've got all the
emails but no way to respond as far as actual addresses.
R. Bell: Both theaters are in use that evening.
• Underhill: Ok, we'll use the V-room.
Wadhams: I think we should pick a night when nobody is using the theaters.
J. Bell: There in use now until June.
Wadhams: Every night?
R. Bell: No, not every night, but until April 29 is the first free day.
(Everybody talking at once)
Gartenmann: How about the lobby?
Wadhams: Well, if the theater groups are in production...
R. Bell: They'll be able to send a representative.
Gartenmann: Catherine and I will work together and get..
Landsman: Yes.
•
Underhill: How many people are you thinking?
• Berlin: I'm thinking 15 groups.
J. Bell: There are 15 theater groups in Boulder?
Berlin: Those on the list, plus from the University, the library
Underhill: We can use the V-room.
R. Bell: If we can free up one of the theaters..
Wadhams: The end. Good by.
Minutes of the November November 15, 2000 and January 19, 2001 meetings were approved as
received.
Quarterly Financial Reports
Dairy Center for the Arts: Catherine Underhill reported that the renovations for Phase 1B at the
Dairy are winding down. The Board is working on major fundraising to reduce the budget over
runs for the space. The Dance space is booked through the end of July. The Gallery has exhibits
scheduled through May 2002. The Dairy newsletter, Artmoos, is undergoing a new design. The
Dairy board has agreed to put off the next phase of renovations until 2003 and focus on raising
funds in the next year. There will be an open house at the Dairy on April 1, 11-4 p.m.
Colorado Dance Festival: Katy MacDiarmid passed out copies of the Boulder Dance
Community space subsidy application. The deadline for applications is March 16. MacDiarmid
said the subsidy program is proving to be quite successful and thanked the Commission. The
Dance Festival has a new image on brochures. CDF will also be printing matchboxes with the
new design and distribute around Boulder. CDF is also planning to do performances and
workshops throughout the year. The completed dance space at the Dairy has made it possible to
increase the number of performances.
Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art: Interim director, Tara Williams distributed
information for the current show at BMoCA. The upcoming spring exhibit will feature national
artists. The winter show will focus on Colorado artists. The Museum ended the year with a
$20,000 deficit but the board is looking at ways to rectify the situation. One idea is to cancel a
travelling show scheduled for Fall. The show documents the history of the Blues. Williams is
hoping another organization will come forward to display the exhibit. The BMoCA board is also
looking a making more of a presence at the Farmer's Market.
Collage Children's Museum: Nancy Geyer reported that Collage has a new executive director.
Alison Moore resigned and has been replaced by Leslie Durgin. Collage broke attendance
. records in 2000. Geyer distributed architectural drawings for the civic space at 9th and Canyon.
The group is scheduled to go before the Planning Board in the next week for plan review.
• The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
•
•